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  1. #199062012-03-26 19:46:28Gasganno said:

    If the child is going to be born in to a family that can't fulfill it's needs e.g. in a teen pregnancy where the mother may not be mature enough to know how to raise a child or provide it with the care it deserves. in this situation I think it's fine it wouldn't be fair for that child to end up messed up because of a parents inability to look after it (not saying this is always the case however it does happen and is it a risk you really want to be taking).

    What @DarkChaplain said is right to i agree with him, however i would say "ruin" would be a bit to harsh it certainly is the case most of the time but it can also just be a set back, delaying those goals.

    I also believe it's not just down to the Mother as it's the fathers child to so it may put a stall on life goals of plans. Now this may seem selfish but it's an Unborn child, i know there's all this research to say when the babies first heart beat is or when they're developing a brain but if that child is A) going to stop me from doing what i want from life or B) won't receive the proper care it deserves then why shouldn't it be aborted? (that is not rhetoric i'm genuinely interested in hearing peoples opinions)

  2. #199132012-03-26 20:44:46LimitBreaker said:

    Obviously this is a massive issue, especially for people who find themselves in the situation... But in my personal opinion, pro-choice is the way to go - I think a lot of people can preach about why Abortion is always wrong, but they don't think or empathise with people who have been raped, or be in an extremely difficult situation to raise a baby in. On the other hand, abortions for trivial stuff seems wrong - the classic example I heard is of a woman who had an abortion because she had a skiing holiday planned...

    Think about this though, if abortion was made illegal, people would just go and have it done in an alleyway with a black-market doctor - it could become far more dangerous

  3. #199222012-03-26 21:38:58 *Cloud-VK said:

    Idk its good sometimes bad most of the time... but since I love kids its hard to be for it... but haveing the child might also be a death sentence anyway since some kids go through hell today because of an unstable lifestyle

    even so I think every baby should have a chance at life or else its just not fair

    arrrrrrrg this could go either way it depends on the reason

  4. #199262012-03-26 21:57:37Mau said:

    Honestly, I'm on the fence. I understand that it is the woman's choice, but when people use abortions as a replacement for contraception, as I've actually met people who refuse to use protection and when they wind up pregnant they use abortion as the solution. That's when I find abortion revolting, when people use it to correct the result of their own stupidity.

  5. #199422012-03-27 00:42:41 *halcy said:

    Here is the thing about abortion: It happens. If your choices are to die or to get an abortion, unless you are insane, you opt for the abortion. If you get raped, and get pregnant from it, chances are you opt for an abortion. If the condom breaks and the pill fails and you pretty much can't fucking afford to raise a child because child care is a full time job not just anyone can afford to do, and state child support and child care are a fucking joke because spending money on actually helping families is not sexy - chances are you'll go for an abortion. And you do that wheter it is legal or not. You can not stop abortions from happening.

    You can make abortions illegal, but if you do this, you do not stop them from happening, you just prevent the state from setting standards, you make abortions happen in shady unlicensed clinics instead of doctors offices with sanitary conditions. This means people die.

    If you think that is somehow exaggerated, look no further than the past. These things happened. If you criminalize abortion, they will start happening again.

    This is the practical argument for abortion. The more moral-philosophy-wank-y one is that you own your body right up until the point where you doing what you wish to yourself starts to seriously hurt society, or another person. You not having a child does not hurt society. It also does not hurt another person.

    Some people construe a fetus - a ball of cells that is to a human what the eggs you have for breakfast are to a chicken (if someone at the plant didn't pay attention) - to be a person, or a potential person, or whatever the hell. If you do that, it becomes your usual "weigh one persons rights against another persons". It's fairly clear that abortion should be legal even then, at bare minimum in a situation where the life of the person who would have to carry the child would be threatened. You can extend that to self-defense, if you want to, where you have to start considering how to weigh various rights, which might be fun if you study law and you're into that shit.

    Alternately, you can also decide that treating a full-grown human the same as a ball of cells is not neccesarily the best way to go about, and that putting a limit - arbitrary, but well-informed by current medical knowledge - that leaves enough time for consideration of an important decision but ensures that abortions are done at a time when it is safe to do so is a fairly good and practical approach to solving a real, existing problem that no amount of discussion about "Potential" and "Souls" would make disappear.

  6. #199432012-03-27 01:15:52 *Ethereal said:
    Well, if anyone really is interested enough in this, I wrote a speech on it for my Government class a couple years back. I'm a go ahead and post it for those who are interested~


    http://pastebin.com/br0p9GRP

    Feel free to debate anything in it.
  7. #199472012-03-27 02:13:46NGH said:

    It depends on what you think a fetus is, and at what point you believe a fetus a living entity.

  8. #199482012-03-27 02:41:46 *halcy said:

    @Ethereal

    Two points.

    One, anecdotes aside, most women are perfectly fine after getting an abortion, actual mental health problems after abortion are very rare. Many people feel anxious, obviously - as you feel after every big decision you make. The anti-abortion-WHAT-YOU-DID-IS-WRONG choir probably doesn't help, nor do hormones, which go from pregnant back to normal, which is something that messes with your thinking for a while (compare menopause). The point here, however, is that "having confliceted feelings for a while" is not a mental health problem, and is caused by many things - carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term is certainly amongst those things, too. Abortion poses no risk to physical health and future fertility (A lot of studies that do claim to find such things fail to control for, most prominently, higher liklihood of STDs in more promiscuous women, and other lifestyle-related factors. Studies which do control for these find no such link.), and only comes with a small increase in suspectability to mental health problems (And I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that the reasons for this are not physiological, but societal - if you tell people that they are a bad person for getting an abortion a lot, they'll start believing it). This association has been studied very, very thoroughly and in many studies, most of which suggest that carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term is just as bad for your mental health than getting an abortion.

    Two, the adoption thing. I do not get it. It doesn't make sense on multiple levels. Take statistics; there are around a million abortions per year in the US. Currently, there are around a hundred thousand children in foster care waiting for adoption. Foster care couldn't take a one time order-of-magnitude increase in children, much less that per year. Furthermore, abortion is a way to get out of pregnancy, while adoption is a way to get out of parenting - these are different things, and the difference is fairly important. Adoption is not "better" than abortion, nor "worse", it is different from abortion.

    And all that aside, I can only repeat myself here: Abortions happen, legal or not. If they are illegal, a lot of people die, if they are legal, they are one of the safest medical procedures in the developed world.

  9. #199532012-03-27 03:34:14Sakima said:

    I honestly think it is up to the woman to choose, the man has some say but utimately it is up to the woman. In saying that, I would never want an abortion but I can't force my views on other people. To prevent things like this people should first of all be ready at a mature level for sex and practice safe sex if you don't want a kid. Alot of people are having sex without thinking about what can happen which to me tells me they aren't ready. Use whatever contraceptive you can if you aren't ready for a kid its as simple as that. We won't need to resort an abortion as much if we did.

  10. #199652012-03-27 05:28:10 *canon said:

    i agree with everything @halcy says. abortions are going to happen no matter what, and ultimately it is up to the woman because hey, it's her body and this little fucker is sapping its resources. situations that really make me pro-choice are when the fetus/baby is posing a threat to its mother's health, and when the fetus/baby is going to be born sick. disorders such as progeria, spina bifida, tay-sachs, and others that make a baby's life living hell from the moment it takes its first breath. the babies do not survive, and the little bit of time they spent in the world was excruciating and hellish. if they have a chance of survival, they're nothing but a drain on society. i know that's harsh to say, but it's true. if i was a mother and i found out my baby was going to have premature aging or its brain would grow exponentially until it ultimately outgrew the skull and killed my child before their second birthday, i would definitely opt for the abortion. even if i wanted the child. it would be a hard decision, yes, but it's better than letting that kid live for less than two years, and that short time being a living nightmare. even if i didn't agree with abortion, it's really not up to me or anybody else what a woman does with her body. it just isn't. pregnancies and birth giving are also threats to the mother's health. i honestly think that if it's in the mother's best interest to have an abortion and save their own life, they should have the option to do so. bottom line is that nobody should be able to tell you what you can or cannot do with your own body. you have a right to your body, you should have the right to abort a potentially harmful ball of parasitic cells from your body.

  11. #199722012-03-27 06:00:56Chestnut_Rice said:

    Unless it can be proven that the child was conceived from a rape, no.

    I certainly support a woman's choice to have a child or not. But if you want an abortion because you've been fucking around with your man whom you've been with before, with out protection, knowing what might happen and yet you not wanting to face the consequences, that's absolutely unacceptable. Pills and shit are dirt cheap these days. No excuse for that kind of behaviour.

  12. #199892012-03-27 08:42:10 *2-guard said:

    Abortion should be legal, but require a case study of the couple planning to abort to make sure the abortion is reasonable and not on a foolish whim. to make sure the abortion is "ethical" there should be a counseling with the parents and a psychologist and a social worker and such.

    for an example scenario, the abortion is allowed if the mother would die because of birth-related harm.

    in a counter scenario, if the mother is just over-thinking things and the child would be born into a prosperous and warm home, then the abortion should be denied

    After @Gargon 's corrections: yes you are very right. i guess the opinion I am trying to make is that sometimes it is good for the potential mother to have a second opinion or rather someone to just sit and listen as she self-evaluates the situation.

    yes it IS the mother's decision, and to be honest I have interacted and was moral support for a young miss that was raped, and i honestly believe she made the right decision because she used me as a sounding board for her to self-evaluate.

  13. #199912012-03-27 08:58:01Meaier said:

    I think that it should be legal, because it's better that they get safe abortions.

    But I think that people should be more carefull about not getting pregnent if they don't want a child. So that it can be less "unnecessary" abortions.

    And I think that if the woman wants to abort it she should do it as soon as possibly, I think that the time frame for legal abortions is to long.

  14. #200002012-03-27 11:46:26TokoyamiSenshi said:

    I like to approach these problems using Occam's katana.

    Rape -> Kill the fetus. Not rape -> Is mother's life in danger? No -> Don't kill the fetus. Ever. Yes -> Can she decide for herself? Yes -> Do what she says. No -> Who's more likely to be saved? Mother -> Kill the fetus. Fetus -> Let her give birth.

    It certainly sounds better to me than "What would God want me to do?"

  15. #200042012-03-27 12:22:04Cloud-VK said:

    In all honesty we probably couldnt handle the over population.....but In my opinion I think we as a speices are to modest on our selves I dont think a single life is unimportant who knows the long term effects