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  1. #354642012-08-12 18:08:15momo said:

    Correllation does not imply causation. Taking in wealth of these countries into account, availability of public learning institutions, and how much money is dumped into these schools would give you a similar graph, I expect.

  2. #354872012-08-12 23:53:29TokoyamiSenshi said:

    What really bothers me is this. If you take a large enough population and a GOOOD IQ test, the mean IQ should be the same anywhere on the planet. A quick look at the data sheet and even an African would notice that he/she is being insulted.

    Drawing conclusions from the asses of the civilized world, one could be pretty damn sure that the IQ test favours education. Which is, mind you, not something an IQ test should do. Education is, after all, a very elaborate form of taming which sometimes happens with our consent. In other words, the graph is a biased load of bullshit.

    Thank you for flying with objective airlines and don't let the door hit you on your way out.

  3. #354962012-08-13 00:31:44Gargron said:

    I don't think this graph insults anyone. First of all, it shows that in countries with lower IQ, there is also a higher popularity of religion. It doesn't say why, and it doesn't claim the IQ to be the reason, though the correlation is there.

    But: If the IQ is the result of education, and education is the result of country wealth/good politics, then things come together. It's an expected correlation.

    @acostoss @TokoyamiSenshi

  4. #355492012-08-13 06:45:46Chestnut_Rice said:

    I've seen this picture/topic posted literally dozens of times on Krautchan's /int/.

    CAUSATION =/= CORRELATION

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm a pretty hardcore Social Democrat who worships the Nordic model and would cut off my balls with a rusty knife to have it instituted properly in Canada and America, but denying God just for the sake of denying God is stupid.

    Just because there is a correlation doesn't mean that one thing causes the other. Are you suggesting, @Gargron, which I think you are, knowing you. Pretend all you want but I'm pre' sure that's what you're really thinking. That these nations are "stupid" /because/ they believe in God? Well what if they were to all suddenly become atheist? Will they then magically become beacons of democracy and prosperity? Hell fucking no.

    Good job on showing that more "educated" nations have better explanations for why the world works the way it does rather than relying on "God/the Spirits/Aliens did it".

    Also, I bet the graph was made by Communist homosexual-worshipping libtard "scientists" who failed to account for cultural differences while making or choosing their IQ test. It's been well documented that Blacks seem to have low IQ because tests are white-oriented. Blacks naturally do better when references to white culture are removed and replaced with concepts and situations that blacks are familiar with.

  5. #356042012-08-13 10:53:13TokoyamiSenshi said:

    @Gargon: What I'm saying here is that they made IQ tests to favour the educated which should NOT be done. One is not more intelligent because of education. In fact, I dare argue it could make you less intelligent in extreme cases. That's why it is insulting. They don't have a readily available education system, therefore they are less intelligent then the rest of the planet. That's insulting, all right.

  6. #356052012-08-13 11:04:06 *Gargron said:

    @TokoyamiSenshi To be honest I don't see how the standardized IQ test favors education, when most of the problems are based on logical and creative thinking rather than factual knowledge.

    Edit: Even if the IQ test should indeed favor education, I don't see how that has anything to do with the graph. It just supports the thesis that "less education/logic/knowledge == more belief". The study doesn't insult anyone or blame anyone. It doesn't even claim causation. So everyone, take a chill pill.

  7. #356502012-08-13 16:36:35Chestnut_Rice said:

    @Gargron

    What counts as "logical and creative thinking" for the Western world might not be the same thing to a mostly isolated tribe of Africans or a group of rural East Asians or even urban Blacks. The different environments people are brought up in gives them different ideas on how to solve problems and what is "logical". Please stop thinking that the differences between cultures aren't big enough to influence things like this. They are.

  8. #356562012-08-13 16:46:53 *Gargron said:

    @Chestnut_Rice Cultural differences only go as far as methods differ. Logic and reason in itself is a universal (and rare) human trait.

    That being said, I'm not an expert on sociology, even though I studied it for bit, so I'm not going to insist on my words.

    Still, I don't quite understand why we are talking about isolated African tribes and rural East Asians when the poll spans across a quite limited and definite number of countries such as USA, Germany, Sweden, Russia etc.

    Edit: The point is that most countries the IQ average was taken from are civilized and it is highly unlikely that any isolated tribes and rural residents took part in the poll, whatever the country.

  9. #356672012-08-13 17:29:36TokoyamiSenshi said:

    @Gargon: What @Kirn said. That's what I was referring to. Also, there was someting about math competence turned into IQ scores.

    p. 73-80, Table 6.5: National IQ based on arithmetic means calculated by Lynn and Vanhanen (2002), in parentheses PISA scores of "mathematical competence" (Prenzel, Manfred et al. (eds).: PISA 2003. M√ľnster: Waxmann 2004, p. 70, Table 2.9; or: PISA 2003: A Profile of Student Performance in Mathematics) , transformed into IQ

    Yeah, something like that. I mean, average IQ differs from country to country? By over 40 at best? Sure.

  10. #357322012-08-14 01:24:31Chestnut_Rice said:

    @Gargron

    That /still/ doesn't discount the fact that any raw-intelligence measuring scale is still highly subjective and culture-dependent. I can't remember any sources but I clearly recall coming across a well-respected researcher saying on the Intenet that the IQ gap between Blacks and Whites is neglible when two different tests for two different cultural environments are administered.

    Also here you're combining raw data (IQ) with survey results (importance of religion); there's also bound to be a huge margin of error. So all in all, take the information with a good handful of salt.