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Do You Believe in God?

  1. #455092012-12-28 10:21:56 *PigBoss said:

    However, where did what we evolved came from? Oh? The Big Bang? Or w/e nonsense, it all boils down to this --- Where did what come from? Eventually it boils down to something had to be here forever. Now, either way you can say the Universe and particles or some sort of BS have been around forever. But think for a second, can you comprehend that? That particles were around forever. Where did those particles come from? No where?

    To us humans, the comprehension of forever is impossible. If there is an all knowing god or series of gods that know everything, then it/they should know what "forever" means.

    To us, forever is "a fucking long time." Billions of years is not forever. Trillions of years is not forever. 13.75 billion years (the estimated age of the universe) a damn long time, but it is not forever. Forever implies that time has been extended for an infinite amount of time. Those that have taken calculus may have learned that infinity is something that has no limit. The universe (to my knowledge, correct me if I am wrong) has known limits.

    somewhat related quote here:

    There are known knowns; there are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns; that is to say there are things that, we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don't know.

    Therefore, it should not be possible for the universe to exist "forever."

    Please do understand that the universe has not been around "forever" per quod I have given reason for, but rather the universe has been around since the beginning of time as we know it.

    Science is the imperfect human pursuit for truth in everything including "the Universe and particles or some sort of BS have been around forever."

    Scientists are hard at work in finding the truth. The questions are still being answered.

    Picture! http://i.imgur.com/dQLts.jpg

  2. #455102012-12-28 10:22:22Noodle said:

    I believe in science.

    I believe religion is a tool used by man to control other men.

    I believe there may be some kind of creator and some kind of afterlife, similar to what the holy books, etc, tell you about. The books are however corrupted and manipulated and I don't trust them.

  3. #455122012-12-28 10:25:47Ethereal said:

    @PigBoss I can not and will not take it as the slightest fact, for a reason you yourself have stated. I see those who believe in it as ignorant, just as you see those who do not as ignorant. You earlier stated how there are thoughts of Rene Descartes's you choose not believe because there are parts that are flawed. I take that to mean if a single thing is flawed you reject the idea altogether? Correct me if I am misunderstanding. And in just I am replying to, you stated that science is not perfect and has flaws. (Unless being imperfect is not the same as being flawed).

    Also, another part of why I will not take evolution as even the slightest of facts is this. You would probably tell me dinosaurs are real? I would imagine so at least, I apologize if you would not. However, it should serve as a fitting example anyway.

    Have you ever seen a dinosaur? I'm sure you have seen their bones and fossils. I do not believe they were real. Most people would call me extremely ignorant for that with all the "proof" of their existence.

    I have seen bones. They could have been placed there any number of ways, not that I believe them to be placed by man.

    I see life as a test. A test of who will stay loyal to God. A test to see who can give up their pride and selfishness and even after every test, have the sight and wisdom that God is real and is also our savior. As such, I do not by the slightest means see any reason why they could not have been placed there to try our loyalty. To see if we would take his words for true, or if we could be deceived by such. The same goes for evolution. I have never seen a monkey turn to a human. I have seen humans adapt, but they have stayed human. If monkies of any form (prime apes or whatever you may wish) did evolve into humans, why has no man in the hundreds of years documented seeing any of these changes in the slightest other than the adaptation? I believe it is a test to see who is loyal, and who is not. Some may ask and say I have not seen God, so why believe in him. But I have seen much more of God and heard his voice countless times more than anything any information about evolution could ever compare.

    As for God being perfect, a friend of mine once had the same question. I was unable to answer, and he went to ask a preacher. I do not remember the exact words, but it boiled down to God is not perfect, and there are reasons stating why in The Bible. One being that he created man in his image, which should be proof enough considering man is not perfect in the slightest.

  4. #455152012-12-28 10:33:02Ethereal said:

    @PigBoss

    If it has not been around forever, that would just further by own idea that something had to have created it. Nothing comes from nothing, unless it is a divine power beyond our understanding. Even then it does not come from nothing, it is just beyond our imagination. Also, to correct you anyway, I remember hearing the latest theory about the universe by scientists is that is indeed a forever on going thing. In a sense. From my knowledge of the current understanding, the universe expands expands expands then implodes and expands expands expands again. It stretches, blows up, and starts all over again. An endless cycle. In which case, I see no reason it could be around for forever.

    If the idea that God or a divine creature could be the possible cause to what did create the universe, then the choice between science or God to me is obvious. I have no read an awfully much of The Bible, which as I stated earlier, is to which I am ashamed. However, from what I have read, there are many things The Bible foretells they have already come true. Things it said will never come true, haven't, and things it says will (that people that far back could not possibly begin to imagine or think of), also have.

  5. #455172012-12-28 10:33:19PigBoss said:

    Man, or rather, science, seems to think there is an answer for everything. That you can come to a logical conclusion the entire way, when in fact, at least the way they are currently doing it (by asking where what came from aka -- Humans = Monkies = Some sort of fish organism = particles, etc) you eventually arrive at a conclusion that makes absolutely no sense.

    Science is defined as this: "(Noun) The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural..."

    It is not sentient, and therefore it cannot think nor can it "answer everything."

    Humans have evolved from a shared branch of apes. Apes are mammalian creatures that have evolved from a shared branch of avian creatures (birds). Birds have evolved from a shared branch with reptiles. Reptiles have evolved from a shared branch of amphibians, and so on.

    The thing I don't get is where you "arrive at the conclusion that makes absolutely no sense."

    Could you provide more explanation to your way of thinking?

    PICTURES! http://i.imgur.com/LP7mI.jpg

  6. #455202012-12-28 10:35:46Ethereal said:

    My way of thinking is the rather similar to yours. You said we came from apes, birds came from lizards, etc etc. It all comes down to "What did THAT come from?" And in the end, you have to have an answer. Out of every possibility that has graced this earth is that of a divine entity.

  7. #455222012-12-28 10:39:57Mau said:
    I believe there is a "god" or something that prompted the creation of our universe, but do I believe in the god described in the bible? Or the ones in mythology? No.
    Something created us, maybe intentionally or indirectly.
    There's no proof there is a creator, but there's no absolute concrete proof that there isn't one either.
  8. #455232012-12-28 10:41:17Ethereal said:

    @PigBoss

    As the night grows, and my body weary with it, I am going to leave my two cents at what I have already stated and questioned. This conversation, although interesting, is becoming rather a bore and frustrating, at least for me, as I can only take so much ignorance. Seeing as we both see each other as ignorant, it is already obvious this conversation is going to go no where and that you may also possibly be going irritable (though I think you are more so enjoying it rather than being irritable, though I do suppose anyone can put on a facade) If you wish to keep it going, I suppose we can humor each other, in which case I will be replying another time may it be tomorrow, or in a few days, or in a few weeks. I do thank you for this discussion and hope it continues to grow on both sides.

  9. #455242012-12-28 10:42:50Kirn said:

    Also, on a bit of a side-note. You may want to see this. Numbers are not exact, and this thing was made for more entertaining purposes than anything else, but still... This should make you start wondering about how everything is really an accident.

    www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/607720

  10. #455812012-12-28 13:58:19PigBoss said:

    Everything is an accident/chance/possibility.

    The world is governed by unbreakable natural laws (except for black holes that warp known knowledge into shit, in which case scientists are shitting themselves).

    Natural laws are basically represented by mathematical formulas.

    Basically, everything is governed by math. :p

    I loved the video btw :D Thanks @Kirn

  11. #455252012-12-28 10:43:38PigBoss said:

    The only reasonable explanation is a power that we can not comprehend. A power or being far beyond our understanding that can have really been around forever to make everything happen and fall in place as it such has. A power or being that of which is divine.

    If:

    • 1) there is an all knowing god that is willing to communicate to us,

    • 2) humans cannot explain everything including "what we came from"

    then yes, your statement that "the only reasonable explanation is a power that we cannot comprehend is valid.

    If there was a god, what makes you so certain that it created the universe?

    So yes, I very much so believe in God. Countless times has it been proven to me through my very eyes through the events that have shaped me.

    In my opinion, events cannot legitimately determine if god exists. It could be caused by the variables in life's formula.

    Also, one last joke that I feel might be somewhat appropriate for this topic. (Forgive me if it's not exactly the same it may really be, but I feel it gives the general idea) A man was stranded at sea. A sailor on a ship came by and asked the man, "Do you need help? Why not hop on board?" The man replied, "No thanks. God will save me." Later on, some people on a cruise stumble upon the guy and ask, "You there! Shall I call the captain to bring you on board? You look like you're in quite the predicament!" He replied, "No thank you. God will save me." Finally, after getting weary, a helicopter spots the man and goes down to help. The man replies, "Thank you, but God will save me" and refused to go with them. Finally, the man drowned, and asked, "God, why didn't you come to save me when I was drowning?" God replied, "I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

    that was funny. :) Thanks for the joke ^^

    PICTURE~ http://i.imgur.com/MdKzn.jpg

  12. #455262012-12-28 10:46:02PigBoss said:

    @Maudia @Ethereal @Kirn

    I hope I can reply... This was a bit more work than I had originally planned, but I am glad you guys are responding to my thread. Thank you @Kirn for the website you gave me. I will look into it. :)

    PICTURETIME~ http://i.imgur.com/r1F3p.jpg

  13. #455272012-12-28 10:49:44 *PigBoss said:

    @Rune

    My reasoning is quite simple: I chose not to. I have no philosophical backing whatsoever.

    You could say I hate it and since it thrives on people's beliefs, I choose not to believe because fuck it.

    Do you have anything that gives a reason for your hate? Science needs belief that the information we have built up is "real."

    Also, you can't "fuck" it :p... I think.

    pics plos? http://i.imgur.com/rHvo4.jpg

  14. #455292012-12-28 10:53:37 *Rune said:

    http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/cfa/125/203/resized/ginger-meme-generator-asian-ginger-where-is-your-god-now-bf4b2c.jpg

    Also to add to this discussion, I wasn't born a Christian so I was taught to believe in both God AND science. In fact, there is almost no reason to believe that the religion I was in contradicted with any of the current science. If anything, it only proved that God existed.

    Yes, believing in Evolution was almost required almost as much as believing in God. Not believing in Evolution meant questioning God's power and all that crap. It's because denying all the visible proof on Earth, in particular here, towards evolution was idiotic especially to think that God couldn't have created the dinosaur...

    Also, to this day, I still think that my former religion still makes sense and is still fully compatible with the modern world. It's too bad that I hate god's gut so much... He was such a poorly written Mary Sue...

  15. #455302012-12-28 10:56:07PigBoss said:

    @Rune

    Shit.... I need to type faster.

    Why not? Is it supposed to be inherent to believe in it?

    I do not think belief is inherent. Born into the world as a baby, the baby has been programmed by its genetics to behave a certain way. Natural instincts take over the baby's behavior. However, I don't think belief in a god is in any way inherent because belief is such a complex thing. A baby does not know science or god. If we had belief in god inherent, we would all believe in god. (I think)

    picture wew. http://i.imgur.com/TZSGE.jpg

  16. #455312012-12-28 10:57:44PigBoss said:

    lol I need to play catch up. To all replying to the thread, I am going to reply in the chronological order of the comments, so.... yeah.

    picture! http://i.imgur.com/IvPwA.jpg

  17. #455322012-12-28 11:05:29PigBoss said:

    @Deftones

    I do believe in a creator. I believe that this whole universe is simulated by a super computer, that computer was made by an IT guy. Our god is a IT guy. But if you think about it, what if their universe is simulated? And we are just a simulation running within a simulation.

    Oh shit! Univerception!

    I have this friend that I talk to at my university, and we discuss possible ways that the universe can exist.

    Here's a story that I discussed with him and I found out he read it too :D www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

    What do you think of the possibility that the universe is just a dream?

    What if the being we call god is something that creates universes every time it dreams?

    What if we create universes with our dreams? Therefore, aren't we each a god of our dream?

    Once the dream is gone, what happens to the "people" of that dream? Do they stop existing? Would they become atheists? Do they question god's existence? Would they "matter?" hurr~ :V

    Are we just some "god's" figment of imagination?

    Holy shit. I am feeling high

    picture~ http://i.imgur.com/XlaXa.jpg

  18. #455332012-12-28 11:07:17Akidzuki said:

    I don't believe in God, though I also can't exclude the chance that "he" exist in some way. Someday we might find proof of "his" existence (or nonexistence), but until that day I can't believe in something that incomprehensible. Also, saying that "well, we don't know the answer, so let's say there's a supernatural being that just made it be that way" seems like... running away. All the gods in history represent something that we couldn't explane at that time. Perhaps that's why people started to believe in less and less gods as time went by. That's why most of the active religions nowadays are monoteist. We allow less and less space for gods, by knowing more and more about the world. Ethereal asked (absolutely rightfully) "if you don't believe in God what do you believe in?" Yeah, good question. I would say that I couldn't find anything I could believe in (yet). Science can't explain everything (again: yet), but I'm not willing to assume the existence of a divine being just because of that. Not the way it is described in the Bible, that's for sure. I find that a lot more unbelievable than the Big Bang or evolution. Anyway, this is just my way of thinking. I respect everyone's beliefs as long as they do the same. :)

  19. #455342012-12-28 11:07:39 *PigBoss said:

    @Wanderlust

    I don't believe in God and I do believe that the guy in that pic looks cute.

    He does look rather cute.

    Any reason why you don't believe in God?

    EDIT: lol forgot to put in picture http://i.imgur.com/320vj.jpg