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  1. The nightmarish and problematic realities of Anime


    #655822013-11-07 01:48:43 *hellstorm901 said:

    Hello and welcome to to this merry little discussion which arose from a small thing I started on chat. The point of this is to look at the many settings, themes, character tropes and plots within Anime and to discuss the unfortunate implications and problems these many things would bring if the Anime was in fact reality.

    More recently within Video Games we have seen an increase in thinking about the cause of effect of actions of the players and how by realistic standards the player would be crossing many lines. I would recommend discussions surrounding Spec Ops The Line and the youtube Gametheory video talking about how the players "Heroic" and "Cool" actions within the Call of Duty universe amount to war crimes and crimes against Humanity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcckHAYCxGk)

    Now then, time to apply the same level of over thinking to Anime.


    Tsunderes

    http://taediumedaxrerum.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/vlcsnap-00011.png

    Yes lets start with the most common character type in Anime. Tsunderes in general are one of our main sources of entertainment in Anime, their inability to act on their true emotions and violent and aggressive tendencies towards the person/people they care for is always a hoot with viewers, but lets look at the reality of this character type of the previously shown Taiga or any variant of her if they existed in the real world. You have an individual, usually female, lashing out with violence towards another person who is only trying to be nice to them or help them with a problem, in most real life situations the person they are lashing out at would have less dedication than a usual Anime protagonist and would respond with a kindly "Screw you" and leave never talking to that person again. In more extreme scenarios, i.e. your Misakas, the female in question would likely find herself in prison or with a criminal record for assault inflicted against the person they "Love."


    Ore no Imōto ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai

    http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120602151210/oreimo/images/d/d5/Oreimo.jpeg

    I don't think I could create a thread about realities of Anime without pointing out Oreimo, while the series already does examine in some detail the obvious issue I'm going to be talking about I feel the need to discuss it here. This series looks at the relationship between an older brother and his younger sister which grows into love between the pair. So to be blunt, their incest relationship.

    For any of you that hasn't brushed up on your 21st Century law, in the large bulk of countries incest is illegal and frowned upon. Yet with Oreimo we find ourselves supportive of the relationship between the two characters and while I was more supportive of the protagonist choosing his school friend Ruri, there none the less exists a large fanbase for a pairing featuring the protagonist hooking up with his younger sister and while the series may be ultimately ambiguous about the resolution it is mostly accepted that the brother and sister will end up together. So my question surrounding this would be why do we find ourselves accepting of this type of relationship within the show but in reality to many people the notion of a bother and sister loving each other, to those levels, would repulse us. Just think about that, imagine if your brother or sister said they loved you to those levels or your friend walked up to you and announced they had sex with their brother or sister. You reaction would be much differently than that you experienced watching the show.


    Falling into the cockpit

    The trope which made us fall in love with Mobile Suit Gundam and the large percentage of other Mecha series. The idea being the protagnoist, usually a nameless nobody in the grand scheme of things, will end up piloting an experimental or highly advanced piece of military equipment and then sent off into battle.

    http://www.omega-level.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/THE-WONDER.-THE-WONDER..png

    Sounds exciting right? Well in reality no, this is actually really horrifying to consider and what hammers the point home is that this type of thing really is going on in the world and it ends as one would realistically expect with the inexperienced person getting killed within a few minutes of fighting an actual trained and disciplined soldier. You don't become an experienced pilot/soldier overnight or after a single battle. It takes months of practice and training before you even have a fighting chance of lasting in the type of battles our Mecha universe protagonist finds themselves thrust into.

    So in reality with cases like Gundam we have a young person who has found their way into the cockpit of a military vehicle and is now facing down an enemy force who have spent years training exactly for this, along with the fact that they have planned their attack well in advance and have thought through every eventuality including a "pilot" managing to get into their cockpit in time.


    Love Triangles

    http://rabujoi.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/kokoro10.jpg?w=604 Most Anime which is going to have some love them will have a love triangle the protagonist will find themselves in. For us viewers this allows for plot and development of the characters as the protagonist decides who he or she loves the most and wants to be with.

    So what does this amount to for Mr and Ms reality? Arguably one of the most uncomfortable situations a person could find themselves in. Having two people in love with you at the same time has the obvious fact that one of those women or men is not going to end up with you, unless we're going for that School Days "Best Ending," but for all I care Makoto can go fuck himself. Love triangles usually are resolved in Anime by one party accepting the other and moving on, or holding feelings for the person but not trying to deliberately separate the couple.

    In reality they are not resolved so easily and can in extreme cases lead to outcomes that see the losing party pulling dirty tricks on the winner or no conclusion which leads to both parties walking away from the person they love, in reality women and men generally do not like the idea that you "need to think" about whether you love them or not as they expect an on the spot answer. The losing party unlike in an Anime, except surprisingly School Days, funny how this one always keeps coming up, will then sometimes try to ruin the relationship because "If I can't have you no one can," is more real than often realised. Many Television Shows especially those in the format of The Jeremy Kyle Show, show just how many Love Triangles can end up being resolved.


    This is not to say Anime does not address these issues I have discussed, in fact a number of Anime do exist which have these issues as central themes although I am interested in seeing other peoples opinions on these things and many others.

    If you know a particular thing within Anime that has some unfortunate, problematic or disturbing implications if it were reality then write about them here and allow others to discuss them.

  2. #655892013-11-07 04:38:04 *mizlily said:

    Tsunderes,

    please forever stay a cartoon, the next thing I need is another bitch who thinks she can bitch just for the sake of bitching. *On another note, journey anime is the worst, where the protagonist is in a search to "collect" a particular item. I can just tell from the first episode it's going to drag on forever.

  3. #656382013-11-07 15:11:39Rune said:

    Incests

    Incests are totally fine, in fact I got a bunch of 5 IV Pokeymans by marrying kids with their parents, uncles, siblings, kids, grandparents, uncles, aunts, their own kids, grandchildren, and so on. Also, it's funny you brought up 21st century laws because overtime, incest is getting more and more allowed rather than outlawed although it's still a taboo due to genetic reasons. However, even the genetic taboos might be completely wiped out once genetic engineering becomes viable.

    Falling into the cockpit

    While it's horrifying yes, we are better off in this kind of situation than we were in the beginning of the 20th century.

    PTSD or shell shock is the state where an inexperienced, or even seasoned veteran freezes up and can't do anything during combat. In fact, these people won't do anything even though they are aware they could be shot at down for 'not following orders'. In modern times, these people would usually get help with a military therapist and not get shot so it's really not as bad as it was.

    I think the real problem is just the lack of therapists in anime in general. In history, a trained and disciplined soldier usually fares no better than some nameless conscript in an actual combat situation. In fact, what is usually keeping them alive is more often not their personal skills, but rather their commanding officers.

    And that's another problem with this trope as well: Anime commanding officers are stupid. I mean, you can't just expect your men to 'pull through' while their morale is pretty much non-existent and you're maneuvering your army... well if you can call charging the enemy outright 'maneuvering'. Oh and don't get me started on 'tactics'.

    In any case, this is less the problem with the personal skills of the soldiers themselves and more with the skills of the people who put them there in the first place.

    Tsunderes

    All I can say is that they do exist in real life. People just can be irrational sometimes and this is why spousal and child abuse is real.

    Love Triangles

    This might seem weird, but there are cultures like, for example; oh I don't know... Japan, where views on relationships are not as liberal as the Western World (for lack of a better term). But even in the West, people do accept unrequited to be a reality more often than not; it's just that when they don't and they killed somebody for it, it becomes big news. In fact, I couldn't remember anybody 'generally' be quite unaccepting that the love of their life doesn't end up with them.

    Now going back to the cultural differences mentioned above, the thing here is that some conservative relationships cultures tend to value more on the group benefit of a relationship at the expense of their own individual needs. Some even go to the extreme of accepting arranged marriages; but barring that, people do tend to marry not somebody they like, but rather who could actually support them and their family in the future. And that's the other thing, some people marry not because they love a spouse, but because they want a family.

    In any case, this goes back to problem #1 where there's just not enough Couples Therapy in anime. The nature of the Love Triangle itself is pretty much understandable.

    Spec Ops: The Line

    I agree, it's great!

    Demons and other spirit-based invisible doom-bringers

    Not sure about this one because invisible doom-bringers we have (that may or may not be spirit-based) can either obliterate us or cook our meals.

    Journey Anime

    Yeah, anime is really bad with this one due to the fact they're usually manga adaptations and if you've read Bakuman, you know why these are doomed to fail.

    As said in Bakuman, if a series is popular, the publisher will make it run forever. However, unlike American comics, where this also holds true (why do you think we still have Batman comics coming out?), the Japanese publishers are notorious with the fact that they always want a new series from some upstarts and since everytime they are doing that is a huge gamble, they need to have something to drag on forever.

    This is not restricted to Journey manga in my opinion. In fact, there are Journey manga that could've deserved like tons more books than Naruto. This problem won't go away until stories are actually told like stories and the publishers don't just drop shit because they are 'unpopular'.

  4. #656392013-11-07 15:25:03hellstorm901 said:

    Nameless Police Officers and Soldiers

    http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130124180002/codegeass/images/f/f1/Britannian_Soldiers.png

    This one links in with other media especially Video Games and discusses the tropes "Red Shirt." In many Anime random Police Officers and Soldiers are killed by the protagonists, antagonists or just to hammer in how terrifying/badass a character is, however what never gets much thought is that each one of these people being killed is an individual with families, loved ones and lives they live. In many cases within Anime the Police Officer or Soldier really has no idea why people are attacking them as in their mind they're only doing their job no different to anyone else yet we the viewer support them being killed by boat loads for our entertainment.

    Could you imagine if Lucy's prison break massacre really appeared on your evening news? You would be horrified at what had unfolded and be shown pictures for days to come of the victims and tearful footage of their loved ones yet for viewers of Elfen Lied it was just the first of many amazing scenes demonstrating Lucy's powers.


    Library Wars

    http://www.watchanimeon.com/images/1746.jpg

    Library Wars, the Anime about fighting for freedom of knowledge and resisting censorship not through democratic protest but with sub machineguns. This Anime features two paramilitary organisations equipped with body armor, machineguns and rifles engaging in a sort of "Legal" combat against one another to stand for their beliefs. This is of course fun to watch but lets think realistically about this. You have people given guns and military level training and permit them to turn museums and libraries into battlefields. The series seems to suggest that as the people are all wearing body armor and are shooting weaker forms of ammunition at each other it's okay as the body amour is more likely to be effective, yet in reality anyone with knowledge of firearms would tell you the bullshit nature of this attitude, getting hit in the face, arm or leg can very much kill you. There is also the number of stray bullets to consider and believe me there are a lot because these "Trained" people often shoot fully automatic, do you know how many people were injured due to stray gunfire in Libya including from celebratory gunfire? One hospital reported 15 people a day because what often isn't realised is that stray bullets don't stop travelling just because they missed their target.

    Finally lets put some perspective on this. Two armed groups with opposing views are using violence against each other in public view to carry out their agendas, could you imagine how people would react if say the English Defense League (Far Right Nationalists) and Unite Against Fascism (Anti - Far Right) began openly shooting machineguns at each other? How about if Occupy protesters and Bankers openly went at it with guns? The result would, and is, horrifying yet within Library Wars is entertaining.

  5. #656452013-11-07 16:40:55 *johan_5179 said:

    Nightmarish and Problematic... Well I can think of nothing better than

    Underdogs Always Win

    http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3800000/Anime-Heroes-manga-and-anime-heroes-3803980-709-1024.jpg

    Do I even have to say it? People get their asses handed to them when they take on the big guy. Period. Life does not give you instantaneous-deus-ex-machina-shonen-action-power-ups. Anime, like every other medium of entertainment, gives us what we want, which is a story of achievement which can resonate with our miserable existence, and truth be told, I am addicted to these shows myself, even when I know they're completely wrong.


    Extremely Attractive Evil

    http://media.animevice.com/uploads/3/37318/658383-JohanLiebert1.jpg

    We love them. They are evil, pure evil, and we still worship them. Can a series without an impressive villain even work? Most of them can't. There are series which are seen for the sole purpose of looking at the villain,

    http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/247/4/c/kumagawa_misogi_by_cardotaku-d48syci.png

    and then there are series which have evil all around and we support the side we want to.

    http://rhapsodistreviews.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/alucard-image.jpg

    But, truth be told, are any of these things which we see and adore on the screen anywhere around remotely acceptable? I don't think so. None of these people are admirable in any good way as far as what they do is concerned. Yet, we have fanboys/girls gushing over them. *gushes

    I think I saw Fox News people snoop around looking for more things which make our children violent.

  6. #658782013-11-09 06:41:40Penthus said:

    I actually know a couple people who are dating their sibling/blood-relative and whenever I think of those couples together, I always view them as average couples. I'm also witness to another couple in which the woman fit the "tsundere" character before they started a relationship. I'm not saying that these archetypes don't come with issues in the real world (because they do), but just pointing out that sometimes these things turn out positively. For the incestuous relationships, it just depends on people's morals. Obviously, the majority of people in the world are going to see it as wrong for religious reasons, the risk of mental retardation, forced parental relationships, etc. For me, I honestly don't care too much so long as I see a happy, mutual relationship when I take away the related factor. For the tsundere thing, I really don't know how that happened, but it worked out. I guess a factor that contributed to it was that the "tsundere-ee" was able to see through her actions and realize what was happening.

    Airhead

    A character of a series, often a moe girl, is so innocent and oblivious to everything that is happening around her, yet still manages to have friends, stay cute, get things done, and progress through life. Like the other two characters I previously talked about, there are probably going to be people who still manage to get through life in a positive manner while staying this way. Imagine how many people like that would easily be manipulated by others. I am defending Pino because she is programmed to be this way since she is to serve as a childish companion-type AutoReiv (yes, I still find myself naturally liking these characters).

    Insanity

    Characters who are blatantly not all there. They murder or manipulate people with immense pleasure to the point where they succumb to fits of laughter when they are performing these acts. They're usually cast as the antagonists, but you also see protagonists that most fans of the series will find cool or funny. These people do exist, but a lot of serial killers, rapists, whatevers, were a lot more subtle. If you didn't know about them and what they enjoy doing, then you would just think they were ordinary nobodies. A lot of the obviously insane people you see are usually too incompetent to do all these dastardly deeds and get away with it on the first try. They're either homeless or in treatment centers.

  7. #660402013-11-10 23:26:43 *--Jack-- said:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/Pokemon-diamond-and-pearl-group.png

    Pokemon teaches:

    • Poaching.

    • Living off the streets.

    • That the police do very little to help you.

    • That you are the only one to stop robbers.

    • That swimming is impossible for humans.

    • That you can shove animals into non euclidean balls.

    non euclidean....think TARDIS
  8. #680872014-01-07 23:34:01hellstorm901 said:

    Necromancy magic go...


    Sora No Woto

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/48/So_Ra_No_Wo_To_promo.jpg

    Sora No Woto is a described as "K-on goes to war." A series about girls who love music essentially spending their days doing very little productive until a sudden event comes along where they actually do something where their is a stake in what they're doing.

    But lets look behind the scenes at this show. Main characters are under the age of 18 with the exception of the NCO (Non- Commissioned Officer) and the CO (guess...) yet appear to be full time soldiers in their countries Army. Now what country Helvetia is, is really up for debate although it appears that it is more than likely Spain but regardless we'll cover all sides. The current age of joining the Spanish Army is 18, the age for the Swedish Army is 18 and the current age of joining the Japanese Army is also 18. Yet for some reason at least three of the characters are below the age of 16. What does this mean? In most countries the age of consent to join the Army is lowered to 16 to allow a person to join and finish training by the time they are 17 yet here we see the characters are full fledged soldiers given rifles before they are 16. This heavily implies that Helvetia is a country that has absolutely no problem with sending inexperienced child soldiers into war, for point of reference even in World War II most countries low on recruitment numbers were still skeptical of recruiting 15 year olds let alone 14 year olds.

    Another source of concern is whether any of the characters even have received any form of training. Only two of the characters show they even have experience and adequate military training, these being Filicia (Veteran) and Noel (Mechanic) (Anyone wondering why I didn't say Rio, there's a spoiler as to why I would dare argue she had no military training) The other characters demonstrate a lack of basic training throughout the series including in one scene where a character appears to point a potentially loaded rifle at the face of her friend. One would wonder if war did in fact break out just how long any of these characters would last in battle if their super spider robot did not in fact even work.

    Mashiro Shiina

    http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire1/5f0cf04d55bd9a792ba3d8a3286439a61349733641_full.jpg

    Lets focus on one of the funniest characters we've seen in recent Anime and why her presence presents a major cause for concern. Anyone who spends a few minutes with Mashiro will immediately notice something is wrong with her and that she is not "normal." The truth is it's at least 99% likely she's autistic which isn't really a problem as there's no stigma of any sort attached to that...at least in Britain. In Sakurasou it's point out and dismissed pretty quickly that Mashiro when living in Britain had a nurse who tended to her daily life yet when she is sent to live in Japan she ends up living in a residence catering to strange students. Mashiro who clearly cannot look after her own well being is sent to live in a place that could very easily have housed people who would harm her (Given her childish state of mind the consequences could have been severe) yet luckily for her the residence only houses a mismatch of people who really are there because "strange" just means they can't sit still and be quiet for more than ten seconds.

    Mashiro has a condition and state of mind that obviously requires her to be followed around constantly by a minder to ensure she does not do anything wrong for example eat food without paying (She does it a lot) yet the series apparantly seems to suggest no one in Japan including Mashiros own legal guardian appear to notice except for the main character who should never have been asked to carry out "Mashiro duty."

    If this happened in other countries in reality there would very much be a media outrage at the lack of care being given to a person technically classified as "vulnerable."