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  1. Time to look at the rules. (Meta)


    #690742014-01-25 14:35:40 *Kirn said:

    Hello, one and all. You all know me and if you don't - you know nothing of the site!

    Now, this thread I wanted to post back in late autumn last year... But I have to say, I was too lazy or too busy with other stuff to get to it. Then I got banned, which made it a really bad time to post something like this. But now it's okay, and I have time, so let's get to it. And yes, get ready for a huge wall of text.


    Disclaimer

    If you think you noticed any personal attacks here... Well, probably those were personal attacks (I will probably put some in anyways). However, understand that this thread is here to help you, for fuck's sake! Try to get the goddamn point and think about what I say.


    Premise

    CL rules at their current state suck hard. This came from an obvious and easy to trace reasons - bad admins. We started with a list of... I don't even remember, maybe 3 or 5 rules, made by an immature person who knew nothing of how to run the site, then we got improved list by the same person, who then proceeded to break his own rules, then we got ToS based on a fucking MMO ToS made by a power-grabber. MMO ToS on small anime site. The idiocy... The whole reason for making rules into what they are now sucks. I mean, at times rules were added just to try and 'protect' the poor little admins from one single user. Yes, that was me.

    The point I am making here, rules we have now are not good, not well thought-out and they are made using precedents, and here I mean it in a bad way. It shouldn't be like 'we don't like what this user is doing so we make new rules'. This is exactly why I want to look at the rules now - because we don't have anyone banned or actively breaking rules. Well, there's Deft, but fuck him. If we think about rules now, we are less likely to think about using them against someone in particular, which would provide more general and less biased foundation to build on.

    One more thing before I start. In this thread I will show how rules we got now are not good. I am not yet giving a solution, nor am I giving my own version. I will address that point in the end of the thread.


    Rules

    Here's the link for reference.

    The very first thing - where is the link to rules? It's all the way at the bottom of the site. And we all know that average newfag doesn't even read stickied threads. So how do you expect him to even find the rules? All sites I frequent have rules link way up, near the main buttons. U think it would be better to have rules link somewhere between FAQ and Tags links. Oh, and btw, checked FAQ right now - no link to rules there either.

    Now that we have this out of the way, let's look at the rules themselves.

    Respect everyone.

    .... okay, right from the start - complete bullshit. And it is even more silly if you read further "Mutual respect is what keeps a community safe and enjoyable." because we haven't had a safe community from as far as 2010.
    Now, I am not really against respect in general. But as a rule - it does not work. First - how can you even moderate for something like that? Second - we have people not respecting each other openly here every goddamn day, for years now. So they are all rulebreakers who should be banned? Noone bothered, even with this rule being the first one.
    At best, this is something for the guidelines.

    Act without limiting the fun or disrupting the discussions of other people.

    Partly useless, partly redundant, because limiting of fun can also be disrespectful. Anyways, this is another one of those broad vague rules that are no good. I mean, what if someone would provide harsh constructive criticism? If done right, it would limit all the fun right out of you. And would having an opposite opinion count as disrupting discussion? Sometimes it does exactly that. It's not really clear and open to misuse.

    Do not do or promote anything illegal on the site.

    Okay, first proper rule, finally. I would think about 'promote' part though. Because here on CL we promote a lot of things that people would not promote in real life. Hell, I am promoting killing people, for example. I am pretty sure that's still illegal.
    One other thing. I understand that site should refer to US laws, but... is there like a general laws list for the whole US? I believe, different states have different laws. About bestiality, for example. This is really a minor point, but hey, when hit with 'this is illegal' some US user might as well say 'it is legal in my state'.

    Do not misrepresent yourself or miscredit content.

    No comments here, good solid rule number 4.

    Do not spam messages.

    We are on a roll! Rule 5 is great!

    Do not repost material deleted by the staff without permission.

    And we are back to no-good land. Mainly this is just redundant. I mean, if staff removed something, we are to assume that it was against the rules, right? Riiiiiight... So anyhow, if you would repost it, you already break the same rule you broke before... so you don't really need that one. It just makes staff look overly important and arrogant.

    Do not make threads about technical support issues.

    This rule tells you to delete THIS thread and ban me. Also, this is the rule previous admins did exactly in a futile attempt to shut me up. So, since it is a rule made for me, I command you to remove it now.
    Seriously now, this is no good. If you want to look at how silly this is - this rule makes 'hey, the chat is dead, when will it be fixed?' message on forum illegal. I believe we are long past the time when admins hid themselves from users, so this rule is likely obsolete.

    Do not use alternative accounts to like posts, report posts, or vote in polls multiple times.

    This I actually fully support. Well, personally, I just want to make all alts illegal... but that probably never would pass, so oh well. The only problem I can see here is, can you see lists and IPs of all people who voted on some thread? Or liked some thread? If not - you may have this good rule, but you can't really moderate on that.

    Do not post anything 18+, other than in threads explicitly tagged as NSFW.

    Once again, great sensible rule I fully support. Also the one often broken by Gargron. Yeah, those dark ages of CL...


    Guidelines

    Or "additional notes" that go after the proper rules. Actually, not much to talk about here, so just a few key points.

    Anything not expressly forbidden in these rules yet still found to be misconduct by the staff will be taken into consideration on a case-by-case basis. Note that the terms of service reserve us a right to ban a user at any time, for any reason.

    This I am against for obvious reasons, which I will state later.

    Anything relating to suggestions, criticism, or bashing can be freely sent to hello@thecolorless.net as well. Posting it to the forums will result in a speedy deletion.

    Redundant in relation to rule number 7. And useless 'cause that rule is idiotic anyways.


    Terms and Conditions

    Here's the link for you.

    So, this is the motherload. First of all, just like with rules, you can't see this. It's way down at the bottom. Second of all, this, as I said, was taken by Aco from, I believe, Maple Story game ToS. This is not even relevant to forum issues all that much. Hell, even more, MMO license agreements are something very different from forum rules. To try and make one compatible with another... well, that's just really silly. But oh well, if we have this, I have to look at this like it's some actual thing and try not to laugh.

    Your privacy is important to us. The Colorless's Privacy Policy is hereby incorporated into these Terms by reference. Read this to find our more about the collection, use, and disclosure of information, by The Colorless.

    There's a link there to privacy policy. That link is broken. Privacy can't be found on CL. Quite literally.

    When using The Colorless, you will be subject to any additional rules or guidelines, whether already stated in the Rules and Guidelines or in the form of announcements. These new guidelines are to be followed as the site-wide rules and guidelines are, and are also incorporated by reference in these Terms.

    You will laugh at this, but there's also link there and this one also doesn't even work. No rules or guidelines on CL! Should I even stress how stupid it looks?

    The Colorless reserves the right, at our discretion, to change, modify, add, or remove portions of these Terms at any time, with or without posting a notice in the announcements.

    Obviously, something I don't like here is 'without posting a notice'. Notices are easy to post, and it's obvious that if a new person gets on the site, he should read the rules. But then, of the rules change, it should be announced. Once again, sites I visit tell if the rules change. This site should to, and this line should be erased and forgotten.

    Disallowed Conduct

    Redundancy galore! So, apparently we have two sets of rules - rules rules and ToS rules. Sense - this makes none. But oh well...

    Stalk, threaten or harass any user, whether it be on or offsite.

    This is something I am not sure about. On one hand, this is a good thing to enforce - we have people stalking other people to no end here and on skype and wherever. However, how do you really know if someone is stalking? Do you take user's word? Take logs? How do you see if something is a harassment or not? We are quite harsh here, so there's a really fine line. And threats... well, I threaten people all the time. Um... does 'I will criticize your story till your eyes bleed!' counts?
    I kinda feel that this should either be reworked somewhat, or mods should have some modding guidelines for cases like this.

    Send, post, or make available any threatening, embarrassing, hateful, racially or ethnically insulting, deceptive, tortious, defamatory, libelous, or otherwise inappropriate or offensive content to other members of The Colorless

    Lots of words... redundant with rules rules 1 and 2.

    Impersonate another user, entity, or The Colorless Staff

    Redundant with rules rule 4. That reminds me. We had people doing that on alts at times. Hey, actually, that's also what previous admins did. Can we ban them already?

    Misrepresent the source, content, or identity of any information posted to The Colorless, including, but not limited to, original author, artist, or copyright holder.

    Also redundant with rules rule 4. (Yes, I will now have to say rules rule and ToS rule... yes, this is silly)

    Use, or cause/encourage any other to use The Colorless for any illegal/unethical purpose.

    I think that's also redundant with rules rule 3.

    Interfere with the staff

    Now that's just silly. How can you interfere with the staff that would go into separate rule category? I think this is the same as rules rule 6. If you do that - you already break some other rule, so you don't need that and that makes staff look overly important.

    You may not publish or post other people's private and confidential information, such as credit card numbers, street address, photograph or Social Security/National Identity numbers, without their express authorization and permission.

    Actually reasonable.

    Exploit site code for malicious purposes, including, but not limited to, that which is described in these Terms, and in the general Rules and Guidelines.

    Also good standard sensible rule. Don't fuck the code or use code bugs... and we had those, yep.

    Purposely interfere with any Moderator, Admin, or Developer's work, or any user's enjoyment of The Colorless.

    Oh go fuck yourselves already! This is fucking redundant with already redundant ToS rule 6 and redundant with rules rules 6 and 2. What is this crap? Why do we need the same fucking (and btw useless in its very core) rule repeated two, three, four times?!?!

    Discuss, promote, or depict any form of child sexuality, abuse, exploitation, or anything of the sort that can be used to harm or threaten the security of a minor.

    Hmmm... I think this is redundant with rules rule 3 but for some reason minors and abuse of minors seem to be important to people, so many places repeat stuff like that... oh well.

    Post or distribute anything that contains viruses, or malicious code.

    That's alright too. Though, I think it's illegal by law already?

    Engage in anything else that is prohibited in the Rules and Guidelines, including site Guidelines that are included into the Guidelines by reference.

    No guidelines. This is really useless text. What, just reminder to follow rules? Or reminder that this site is so fucked up that we have rules rules ans ToS rules? God... mash all rules together in one simple list, and be done with it!

    So, that's it with the list.. what else we have there...

    The Colorless is not available to persons under the age of 13 or to any Members suspended or removed from The Colorless by The Staff.

    How do you plan to keep little kids out? It is funny that I am one of the few people who actually ask newfags their age.

    You agree that the information you provide to The Colorless during Member registration and at all other times will be true, accurate, current and complete. You also agree that you will ensure that this information is kept accurate and up-to-date at all times. The Staff may, in its sole discretion, refuse to offer The Colorless to any person or entity. The Staff may change its eligibility criteria at any time. This provision is void where prohibited by law and the right to access The Colorless is revoked in such jurisdictions.

    This is bullshit again. More precisely - MMO bullshit. When you join CL, you give out your e-mail... and that's that. That's all 'personal info' you are asked. This is not MMO where you need to update your info to, for example, continue paying for the fucking game. This is useless here.

    Messages and Posts

    Pretty much just ass-covering. I have nothing against it, but it feels kinda useless for such a small site, really.

    DMCA Violations

    More ass-covering. But, I guess, on anime-related site you should have that. I actually comply with that by not posting torrents on my documentaries threads.

    You agree that The Colorless, in its sole discretion and for any or no reason, may terminate any account (or any part thereof) you may have with The Colorless or your use of The Colorless and remove and discard all or any part of your account. Any fees paid hereunder are non-refundable. The Colorless may also in its sole discretion and at any time discontinue providing access to The Colorless, or any part thereof, with or without notice.

    Okay, this is the core of what I hate about this thing. Oh, and you can see that it's still something from MMO. Termination, fees... they put that in, but they never do that without reason. On this site, however, this was put in specifically to delete people without reason.
    This is something I can't agree with and you should also agree that staff should not say that they can do things to users just because they want to do things to users. For one thing, that's actually against the rules. Another thing is I would destroy the site if I see that happening. And the main reason is, this is something very stupid to write on a site where you are not the content-maker. You see, MMO players use content made by the company. They actually don't own anything - not even their own characters. That's how it is. On community sites like this, however, site only provides the place, and all the content is made by users that ToS threatens to trample on. So you should see that this is something completely wrong to write. Both in ToS and in Guidelines under rules rules.

    Disclaimers; No Warranties

    Pretty much, more ass-covering. That's a lot of ass-covering. Our site doesn't have an ass as big as that.


    Privacy

    While this link in ToS is broken, we actually have some privacy. Here's the link

    Well... hm... ahem... actually, I got nothing bad to say about this. As far as privacy information goes, this is quite good. I'd say the one problem for this is that, once again, you can only read it if you scroll all the way down. And keeping information on 3-4 separate pages is also not the best thing to do. But other than that - quite sensible text there, I am properly surprised.


    Conclusion

    So, those are the things that are, in my personal opinion as oldfag CL user and past mod, are bad in our rules. While I have some strong opinions about it, this is in fact NOT SOMETHING WE NEED TO DO RIGHT AWAY. I mean, people on staff are working on general modding guidelines and are doing, mostly, a decent job. However, when using common sense, mods sometimes go against or ignore the rules we have now. Exactly because there's a lot of dumb stuff in there. Plus, rules are a basis for staff relationships with user. So when rules are sloppy or, as we have here at times, horrible to users, still having them feels disrespectful to a community we are trying to rebuild here.

    So, saying all that, I would really recommend you people to look at this. I don't tag Warlock or any mods here, you will all read this anyways )) , but I do urge you to think about how rules can be improved. It's not that hard to do - just re-making a lot of text in a way that would make sense.

    If anyone would be interested, I have experience working on site rules before, so I can help you out on some points that should be remembered or something. But I am pretty sure you can do you yourself pretty easily too. Just read the rules properly and see, like I saw, how many things should be changed.

  2. #690752014-01-25 14:57:08 *DarkChaplain said:

    Can we have a rule against promoting alcohol excesses and orgies to minors now?
    I mean, do we really have to suffer drunk-out-of-his-mind Deftones on chat, or have Spooky invite 15 year old girls to parties to get drunk with him? If we go as far as to say "sexual content is bad" and "post adult stuff only on adult -tagged threads", why don't we have any sort of rule against promoting underage drinking or drug use, and we do we tolerate perpetual drunk fucks?

    We even have a sodding POs inthis theresd when your durnk OK thread, made by a former admin during his administration that has seen active use from staff plenty of times. I don't see that marked as nsfw, and last I heard you had to be what, 18 or 21 to drink alcohol in most regions? I mean, you can have "soft" stuff at 16 in Germany, and everything at 18, but the US, whose laws we apparently are most concerned about, is much stricter than that.

    Likewise, on oldCL, I once made a Dead Space thread, and due to the amount of gore and horror elements, alongside a Mature / 18+ rating by various rating instances, I put a big fat WARNING! in red at the top of the OP, since we didn't have nsfw tags back then.

    I'd really like the adult material rule to be expanded and elaborated upon. What is tolerable and fine, what is in need of nsfw tags? What is a no-no?


    In general, while I can see why keeping the rules section itself short makes a lot of sense. However, as Kirn pointed out, it is fractured into Rules, Guidelines and Terms of Service. Likewise, the rules are not clear cut and leave a lot of room for debate. I would like some of them to be elaborated on or further specified.

    For example, we had a freakin' Witch Hunt request posted a few days ago - that's something for 4chan, not CL. I flagged said thread, and smiley mod dismissed the flag, before another, more active and sensible moderator, took care of it via locking.
    Why is there no clear rule/guideline about such things, at least on the staff end, as to how this is supposed to be treated?

  3. #690792014-01-25 15:31:00 *Kirn said:

    I have never posted anything NSFW outside of a NSFW-labelled thread after the rule was introduced (by me, iirc).

    Remember on site image storage? 90%. Not labeled or tagged. No, we will not forget. So no, read the disclaimer and cry a bit.

    That's why it is required, I believe.

    Yeah, nothing to do with most of those meta threads being about how staff at the time fucks up, right? But hey, even if I for a second imagine that this is actually true, and not a usual trinity lie, even then this rule is obsolete.

  4. #690872014-01-25 16:30:06 *Rinneko said:

    I hadn't noticed the rules, guidelines, or terms of service until now. I figured the terms of service did exist somewhere, but it never occurred to me that we had rules. I agree that rules, at least, should be put on the top bar, somewhere near the FAQ.

    Do not make threads about technical support issues.
    Anything relating to suggestions, criticism, or bashing can be freely sent to hello@thecolorless.net as well. Posting it to the forums will result in a speedy deletion.

    Well, if I'm understanding this accurately, the rationale behind this rule is to avoid the creation of multiple technical issue threads. Can we then, have a single technical issue thread that remains stickied up there? In that case, whenever any technical issue may arise, users may post in there. Additionally, if any other users are experiencing the same issue, they may say so and less duplicate reports will be filed. I'm not saying that the idea of sending an e-mail to report is a bad one, but most people (inclusive of myself) will not be inclined to do so. Hence, issues will not be reported and anyone who didn't read/chose not to abide by the rules will create a thread on it.

    On the 'no children under thirteen' rule: if you want to keep children under thirteen out, you might want to put it in the sign-up. Something akin to 'By joining the Colorless, you agree that you are above the age of 13.' Of course there will be cases of the young ones clicking yes even those they are not yet 13, but at least they have been warned.

    The FAQ has not been brought up here but I think it's somewhat relevant. I feel that the stickied threads help new users more than the FAQ does, which occurs to me as pretty queer. If I was completely new to the site, the first thing I'd click on would be the FAQ. It only tells me four things and who the staff are, then suggests I send an e-mail if I want to know more. Personally, I believe it'd be useful to suggest going on the chat to seek help as well. Plus even if you want to keep the new user help in thread form, it would be good if those stickied threads (such as the New User Help and New User Introduction) were linked in the FAQ as well.

    There are many other issues mentioned here that I can't really assess clearly at once right now, so I will probably update later.

  5. #690952014-01-25 18:21:52 *Rune said:

    The under thirteen rule is actually Internet-wide. Most forums and boards have this rule and it's there pretty much just to keep immature people out. If you're say, 11 but you're mature enough to not cause disruption, chances are you're alright even though it's technically not OK.

    Speaking from experience here as somebody who had been on forums and boards since 11 and never ever once get in trouble due to age related thing. I did have some trouble with grammar and spelling but thankfully, Internet was younger back then and l33t speak was quite accepted :D

  6. #690972014-01-25 19:10:14 *Ecstasy said:

    @Rinneko

    Can we then, have a single technical issue thread that remains stickied up there?

    The rule exists not to spam the forum with technical issues and not to disrupt the frontpage which is supposed to be a discussion board for different topics and not inside stuff. If we have a technical issues thread right on top of the frontpage it'll only make it look like the site is unstable. Instead you are supposed to use the "bug report" tab in your private messages, or send an e-mail to thecolorless mail in cases when the site is unavailable for you, or ping the mod in chat, or PM a staff member, you can even use your skype because many active users have mods in their contacts. See, you have many different options, there is no real need in the separate thread.

  7. #691012014-01-25 21:24:49Kip said:

    When I was younger, Neopets required any users under 13 to send a letter through the mail, printed from the site and signed by a parent, to their PO Box in order for underage users to use their website.

    However, I haven't seen many sites use similar methods before, at least not the ones I used. My accounts on GaiaOnline and Cartoon Network's "Cartoon Orbit" were never restricted like my account on Neopets was.

  8. #691182014-01-26 00:33:19Rinneko said:

    @Rune: You sure have been here pretty long! Well, I hope those chances are good chances, and not just because you did not reveal your age.

    @Ecstasy: Oh! Sorry for the misunderstanding. I see your point. It'd be great if all those options you mentioned were placed in to the FAQ as well, and not just the e-mail option. :)

    @Kip: Wow. That's a really complete method, that manages to allow under-thirteens to use the site.

  9. #691482014-01-26 11:39:33Ecstasy said:

    @Rinneko well, it's kinda brought separately on the page, if you scroll down to the navigation box at the bottom left - you'll see there is a button "report a bug there" xD yeah, it might be out of place a bit...

  10. #691642014-01-26 12:15:24Rinneko said:

    @Ecstasy:

    or ping the mod in chat, or PM a staff member, you can even use your skype because many active users have mods in their contacts.

    This, too, could be listed as options in the FAQ. Albeit they are more informal but I think people will be more comfortable with using these options.

  11. #691572014-01-26 12:06:17mizlily said:

    I think the problem with rules is that it allows people to earn exceptions and users tend to act without good will when following them...’rules only count if I like them’

    As of now, rules are what the mods and their friends think are rules

  12. #691842014-01-26 15:50:56Noodle said:

    This rule tells you to delete THIS thread and ban me.

    Well, this thread isn't about technical support. If you don't count the parts about links being broken.

  13. #691922014-01-26 19:12:42Kirn said:

    Well, this thread isn't about technical support. If you don't count the parts about links being broken.

    Well, technically, you are right. However, this is the exact rule that was used to effectively strangle every possible meta thread out there.

    Anyhow, to add my opinion on a few things here:
    While link locations is not exactly the rules-related issue, it is an issue here. I mean, we have people who didn't even notice calendar thread before it got announced. So yeah, a lot of people come here knowing nothing of what the rules are. Which actually works out okay, since most sensible mods we have use common sense and not rules anyways... So it works... But, really, it's not like it should be.

    And in olde days we had a sort of a thread for meta - we used it to propose new features to the site. These days it would have been quite useless, cause the main tech concern is to keep the site afloat, and Warlock doesn't have the manpower to give us new features. So yeah, new features posts would have been useless, bugs can be reported through usual channel or by PMing mods or admin. Well, I do feel that there's a merit in threads like this at times. That's why I make those )

  14. #692072014-01-27 01:34:57 *Trev said:

    Firstly, violently opinionated tirade interjections aside, I think this is a pretty constructive meta post, on the whole.

    Secondly, a lot of the redundancy in the rules comes from the fact that different legal jurisdictions consider ToS enforceable or not, and Rules enforceable or not. For some countries it's both, for some it's neither, and for some it's one or the other. Local laws may vary and for an international site it's hard to cover all of your bases.

    Third, there's a bug report form for technical support issues. It's better not to clutter the forum with it. I really don't care to silence bug reports or technical issues, but if they're issues with the ZeonBBS software, it's probably best to forward them straight to the manufacturer, which is ZF. Anything else just becomes a headache for the staff manning CL and it's really not their problem.

    Fourthly, there's a very specific law about the online interactions of children under 13 in the US called the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act. The rule about age is to comply with that law, nothing more.

    Finally, I will leave the results of selective enforcement of "respect everyone" to the reader. The staff, in its discretion, has permitted several things that I personally do not believe to be respectful behavior. But that's not my place to decide.

    Now for the part I couldn't say as a staff member.

    Be transparent, though. @Kirn, you know a lot of these rules are aimed at you specifically. You've been so disruptive to the normal operation of the site that you wear it as a badge of honor. And here you present a "constructive solution" like a wooden horse to the Trojans.

    The ulterior motive here is to redraw the rules to conveniently avoid making your disruptive behaviors a violation of them. That would be pretty corrupt, don't you think?

    I actually agree that the terms, rules, and guidelines need a thorough revision by someone qualified. But they shouldn't be redrawn to conveniently make your negative, antisocial behavior beyond reproach. That's ridiculous.

    Edit: @DarkChaplain contributing to the delinquency of a minor is already illegal in California, isn't it? I think that goes beyond site ToS into a legal complaint.

  15. #692082014-01-27 02:08:27DarkChaplain said:

    The ulterior motive here is to redraw the rules to conveniently avoid making your disruptive behaviors a violation of them. That would be pretty corrupt, don't you think?

    I actually agree that the terms, rules, and guidelines need a thorough revision by someone qualified. But they shouldn't be redrawn to conveniently make your negative, antisocial behavior beyond reproach. That's ridiculous.

    I don't agree with the assessment that Kirn wants the rules to be redrawn around him. He's taken his holiday-ban well (unlike me, since I was having a blast mocking Lycan and solidifying the point I've made, which was the ban reason in the first place), and in general he takes his punishment well enough, IF it is made in fairness and the punishment ain't arbitrary as fuck (as it was this holiday - my "ban" was 3 days, then a week, for a worse version of what Kirn got whacked for - 20 days).

    Obviously, a more clear-cut ruleset may allow loopholes to be exploitet, if things aren't well thought out, but I doubt this would happen, considering we have great mods like @Ecstasy and @Kip on board.

    The fact of the matter is, though, that CL has progressed from what it was years ago, as has its community. Some rules have become redundant, whereas others may be necessary to be added to simplify and streamline the moderation work - staff shouldn't have to debate over simple things on a case by case basis all the time, which is what happened these past months a lot. Reworking the rules to better suit the current environment seems to make a lot of sense.

    @Trev No idea about california's laws, but neither would I give the fuck about them if I had. The question is whether or not we want to or should tolerate that kind of crap on CL, and whether or not we want to take a clear stand against all the "oh my god I'm so drunk right now let me post shit and creep on people" shit we had to deal with in the past.

    Note: I'm not in favor of banning alcohol or drug discussions outright, but propose limiting it to sensible conversations over promoting how great it is to burn your brains out, or how you can't survive at university without getting knocked out every weekend. There's a time, place and tone for this kind of stuff, and it should not be when a good bunch of early to mid teens are in the room.

  16. #692102014-01-27 02:30:04Trev said:

    @DarkChaplain I'd draw a difference between singing the praises of your favorite intoxicant and encouraging children to use it illegally. The first one has its place; the second one should absolutely not be allowed. So on that we're in agreement. Please do take it up with the mods.

    And I think my point about Kirn not liking the specific rules he's fallen afoul of is a fairly obvious one. Were I in his situation, I'd probably do the same thing. But in light of the alternative, which is to be less of a blatant, unapologetic asshole (again not an accusation, but a title worn with pride) it's still a downright rotten thing to do.

  17. #692212014-01-27 09:48:21 *Kirn said:

    Interesting fact - my meta threads have 95% chance to make all three previous admins piss blood and post immediately after that. I am quite surprised, that Aco isn't posting yet. But oh well, seems like Trev picked up the stuff Aco usually says.

    Secondly, a lot of the redundancy in the rules comes from the fact that different legal jurisdictions consider ToS enforceable or not, and Rules enforceable or not.

    Even with that, there are things that are redundant in ToS or rules alone, without leaving the page. Pretty much my whole point is that it's inadequate work. Rules were just added one on another without restructuring, and ToS was taken from fucking MMO and I don't even know if it was changed a lot, but it wasn't changed well. You people were so sloppy when it came to rules... which isn't really surprising.

    Now for the part I couldn't say as a staff member.

    Bitch, please. Your trademark words as a staff member were 'This is our site and we can do whatever we want'.

    Be transparent, though. Kirn, you know a lot of these rules are aimed at you specifically.

    Learn to read. I am as transparent as I can be. I specified the rule you fuckers made up just to try and limit me. Oh, and if I wanted to remove some rules - I would have drafted my own version. As of now, I just pointed out how those rules we have now can't work or too vague or redundant. Oh hey, there was one rule I am just against and.. surprise! It's the one you made up to try and limit me. Which I clearly stated.

    You've been so disruptive to the normal operation of the site that you wear it as a badge of honor.

    I've been disruptive to you three. Yes, I don't really care if the site burns when I fight. Which I also stated back in the day. But I never went against site itself. Just you. And yes, I am proud of it. If not for me, who knows what kind of gargling we would have had here today.

    And here you present a "constructive solution" like a wooden horse to the Trojans.

    Oh for fuck's sake. In you attempt to attack me, you prove yourself to be fucking illiterate. I stated it right in the first fucking post - I don't offer solution, I just point at problems. Hey, I would be happy to help out if I am asked, but it's not my place to just offer some random rules - the rule-writing process is more complex than that. Not that you know anything about it.

    The ulterior motive here is to redraw the rules to conveniently avoid making your disruptive behaviors a violation of them.

    Funny thing is, if I would have actually proposed my own draft of the rules, you would have had to look for other silly thing to accuse me of. But hey, you are entitled to your own hysterical opinion.


    Oh, and just a reminder. While you even had a rule made specifically against me, when I got banned, noone ever could give a clear reason why exactly was I banned. Because Aco didn't follow any rules doing that. He did that because of two things - 1) I quit being mod and 2) he pissed himself.
    Good luck finding that in rules list.

  18. #695882014-02-03 04:26:52DarkChaplain said:

    @Warlock, can we please have an official admin reply here? Is this being discussed? Are you looking into it?

    In the light of THIS shit, we could really use some clarifications to the rules

  19. #696272014-02-03 11:58:44Warlock said:

    @DarkChaplain We're definitely talking about it, but nothing concrete will happen until I have more time to thoroughly go through the rules/and look at new suggestions. Staff will be discussing changes they feel are important, and we'll see how that goes from there.