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  1. CL Updates: July 2014: Chorus Badge Live!


    #800142014-07-11 05:46:40 *DarkChaplain said:

    Dear Users~

    Two months have passed since our big May update thread, and, as promised, we've got some more news for you.
    This thread, as the last one, will serve to get the regular user up to speed on changes to the site and current projects, as well as give you guys and gals the chance to give feedback.

    Let's go!


    Staff Changes

    I am happy to announce that @Ecstasy has officially returned from her hiatus and is back in the fold of our CL moderators. This means that the european timezones should be better covered again.
    Additionally, we have promoted @Rinneko to Ranger status - we believe that Rinneko has earned this role by virtue of being a friendly, active, engaging and helpful member. She will also be able to reinforce Chat coverage during european daytime.

    So please, welcome both @Ecstasy and @Rinneko to Staff!


    Top Navigation Bar

    This one is a simple change. Previously, the top navigation would feature links to the Front Page, Chat, Tags and FAQ. Staff has decided that our FAQ is in need of a few updates, and that it would be more helpful to users new and old to instead link to the User Guide.
    We hope that this change will make it easy for new users to find the Guide without looking through stickies or scrolling all the way down to the bottom of the page. If they can find the Chat link, they should be able to see the Guide right next to it as well.

    Additionally, the collection of Sticky Threads listed under the "Readme" tab in the forum navigation is now labeled as "Notices" instead.
    You'll find a wider selection of important and relevant threads in that section.


    Bug Fixes

    Rejoice! @Warlock has managed to fix the Thread page-offset bug which has plagued us for about a year. Now everything should work as intended again, so no more posts hidden by the page switching over prematurely. Big thanks to Warlock for this long overdue fix!

    Additionally, our Polls have received a minor fix as well. Previously, the colored bars may overlay the vote buttons, until votes were spread out more equally, preventing many users from casting their votes. This has been fixed, and all buttons should now be easily clickable.

    On top of all that, @Warlock also fixed the on-site Badge uploading system. This means that we can now create new badges without needing to fish around in the database manually. We hope to introduce a range of new badges soon.

    Further fixes are on the to-do list already, but not ready yet. We'll let you know about them when they roll out.


    Projects

    This time I'll also tackle the topic of Projects. CL's been going strong with those over the past months, and right now, we have a variety of projects running.


    CL Calendar 2014

    @Kip is currently organizing next year's CL Calendar, with artwork created by our artistic users.
    Please check the thread if you have any questions regarding this project. From what I gather, there's still time for artists to sign up and get involved!

    The Calendar is planned to be sold as CL merchandise by the end of the year, to provide interested users with a nice, shiny piece of CL culture.


    CL Podcasts

    The CLpodcast recently released its 4th episode onto the forum, featuring our Admin and Owner Warlock. @Gwynn has been hosting the 5th just a few hours ago, and more are being planned already.
    If you'd like to get to know various CL users, regulars and staff alike, then please feel free to listen to these podcasts.

    As an added note: Gwynn is currently looking for artists willing to contribute a new, original cover artwork for the Podcasts. The deadline for this contest is on August 1st, so go ahead and try to get your Server-tan & Server-kun featured - the winner will be chosen by the community and receives a $20 credit for Amazon.com!
    Check the contest here


    Writing Projects

    Ah, yes, this is my own pet project. With the 4th CL Short Story Anthology recently released, the participants weren't going to sit idle for long. So we are already hosting the 5th Writing Project, which a lot of users already signed up for.
    The topic this time has been chosen to be Supernatural (no, not the TV show, the literary genre!), and I have glimpsed plenty of interesting ideas already.

    If you would like to participate, please post on the thread and let me know if you would like to be added to our Writing Group on Skype. The project is scheduled to run until August 11.

    If you'd like to read our previous Anthologies, check these threads: Vol.1 - Vol.2 - Vol.3 - Vol.4


    CL Merchandise

    Including the CL Calendar, staff has also been planning to offer even more CL Merchandise in the near future, ranging from shirts to other, simpler trinkets.
    Please check this thread if you'd like to be involved in the creation process!


    Donations

    PayPal donations are back! You can find the donate buttons on the sidebar.
    The donation counter bar is still broken as of the time of writing, but this will hopefully be fixed in the near future. We're not as broke as the counter would make it appear! Still, if you'd like to donate towards CL's server costs, please go ahead.


    Feedback Box

    Please feel free to post Feedback on the above changes on this thread. Keep things constructive, please!

    If you'd like to report a site problem or have suggestions for new shiny Badges, please feel free to share those as well.

    There are some things this thread did not cover yet in terms of projects, as I personally don't have all the relevant details on them. They may be added later by another staff member if necessary.

    I hope this thread helped you get up to snuff!

    — DC

  2. #800152014-07-11 06:06:20Kirn said:

    Good thread. Makes me feel we all were actually active on the site with real serious stuff instead of fucking around.

    We hope to introduce a range of new badges soon.

    Just don't forget - badges must value so they won't diminish the general value of the badges we already have. That being said, chorus badge would have been nice.

    Anyhow, keep up the good work and updates.

  3. #800162014-07-11 06:18:36DarkChaplain said:

    @Kirn
    I was actually trying to make a Chorus Badge a few days ago, but it looked rather bland, so I put it on hold for now until I have a more interesting idea for it!

  4. #800782014-07-12 00:03:12judar said:

    I like the donate bar, I'm happy it's back! It definitely motivates people to donate when they're able to see the effects of their actions kinda like putting coins into that kittycat coinbank but less cool.

    https://www.sausalitoferry.com/images/stories/strawberry%20crate%20cat%20bank.gif

  5. #800842014-07-12 07:15:08Kirn said:

    There's also + $-403 and I don't even dare imagine what it means.

    Donations counter was always pretty detached from any kind of reality, really.

  6. #800862014-07-12 07:32:03DarkChaplain said:

    The donation counter bar is still broken as of the time of writing, but this will hopefully be fixed in the near future. We're not as broke as the counter would make it appear!

    It's still broken from last year, when Gargron couldn't be arsed to do anything to fix it no matter how many times we'd ask him. Warlock should get it under control in the near future.

  7. #800952014-07-12 14:45:45DarkChaplain said:

    After staff approval, I present you with a new badge:

    "What a Nerd!" Badge!

    "This user wears his nerdiness like a Jedi wears his lightsaber or a Ringwraith his cloak."

    http://i.imgur.com/W0wfGMb.png

    Seeing how many Nerds we have here, and how people address each other as nerds, and nerdiness is appreciated by the users, this one should provide a light, uncomplicated addition to our badges. If you are often seen acting like a nerd, or talk too much about nerd stuff, you may be eligible to receive this badge from a moderator. Nerds.

    More badges are yet to come - we just need to make up our minds first!
    If you have any suggestions for badges, please let staff hear 'em!

  8. #800962014-07-12 15:18:49 *Kirn said:

    Don't like this. No more useful than stalker badge of drunk badge, really. No real definition too, nor mark of producing anything useful.

    Really, I was hoping for chorus badges, and this is what we get first?

  9. #800982014-07-12 16:06:55DarkChaplain said:

    @Kirn
    The Chorus Badge isn't up yet because I'm still not done making it. I'd rather make a good one than a half-assed dull one. I'm currently sitting on my third draft for it, believe it or not.
    It isn't easy coming up with a good design that won't look shit at a 75x75 pixels resolution, I'm afraid.

    The badge above was easy to make, as I knew what I wanted and how I wanted it, whereas with the Chorus badge I am still struggling.

    My current draft looks like this right now (as said above, I was thinking about going in this direction):

    http://i.imgur.com/slbQy0o.png

    So yeah, still working on that. Right now it lacks something that really says "Chorus" rather than "this person likes music", I feel.

  10. #801202014-07-12 22:16:19Dark-B said:

    @DarkChaplain I was thinking, a better design for a "chorus" badge, wouldn't it feel more like it if instead of notes being the center, we'd have a microphone and then there's notes or whatever it is you want to put there. Kind of like we're singing, I'm having vague visions on the angle of the microphone, but I imagine it will be tilting at acute angles, cause straight would be a no-no. Anywho, that's a suggestion on a perhaps better looking "chorus" badge that feels like one than a "music fan" badge.

    If this however proves to be out of reach, oh well.

  11. #800992014-07-12 16:10:10Kirn said:

    The badge above was easy to make, as I knew what I wanted and how I wanted it

    Which does not constitute usefulness in any way. We are going back to the very core of the idea - if we want badges to actually mean something, or if we just want and much random shit on our profiles as we can get. And, quite honestly, we have been somewhere in the uncertain middle of it for years now.
    This badge is no more useful than, for example, Eternal Flame one. Which, while I like it greatly, should have been removed last year.

  12. #801002014-07-12 16:56:59xiaden said:

    I'd think the reason they're so successful is BECAUSE they're on that uncertain middle ground.

    Mixing the two Ideas allows normal users to have a sense of pride for the contributions they make, and allows the more devoted users to set themselves apart in the activities they've done.

    Utility and meaning shouldn't be granted by exclusion. Rather, exclusion should be used as a tool to drive for later inclusion.(if that makes any sense...)

  13. #801042014-07-12 17:12:04Kirn said:

    Nope, you really doesn't. And you really haven't been here all too much, so I can tell you - we already had a shitton of crapbadges here. What it did is it pretty much removed any value off the actual badges, because any retard out there could act a certain way on chat and then yell 'now gimme this/that badge!'. I have no desire watching it again, and I believe that's what can happen with badges now becoming easy to add. Which is a good thing in itself, but shouldn't mean that now we just have to have a hundred of useless crap.

  14. #801102014-07-12 20:13:44Ecstasy said:

    Yeah, I agree. The badge has very little to do with the site activities and doesn't really show any actual accomplishments other than being "elitist" enough to be able to get one (or several). I don't mind it much, but I would still vote for cleaning up such badges instead of making more of them.

  15. #801132014-07-12 20:25:05xiaden said:

    Eh, time on here VS time playing admin on old social media sites / designing said sites. Appearances aren't everything, Kirn-senpai. My comment was meant to point out that keeping a level amount of exclusive only, and "crap badges", as well as increasing the difficulty of attaining later badges is a correct route, not spamming things for a user to ask for the second they join. There is no pride in something that is handed to you without work.

    I think, at the end of the day, we're agreeing to some extent. I understand that the current ratio of "gimme" vs "achieve" badges is currently rather askew (in terms of what a newly joined member can hope to attain), and I'm not saying the answer is toss in more gimme badges and call it a day. What I am saying is that the badges added should be mixed between universally attainable, and exclusive.(hell, you could even split them into two categories, to differentiate to the commoners eyes) For that matter, I do think that universally attainable badges should have some sort of quantitative / qualitative measure to them. Not just "Hey, I know quantum physics, and social web design, so give me a badge", but "I've made useful addition to the site because of my knowledge of quantum physics and social media design".

    Lastly, if begging for badges is all that common + detrimental to site growth then why not disallow it, and enforce the rule? Mute->Kick->Ban->Block. Or have them auto-assign. ...Why don't you have auto assigning garbage badges? EG: post count for today exceeds 10, and all posts meet a length requirement-->Badge. Admin likes X number of your posts--> Badge. Piss Kirn off for the day --> Badge. :P

  16. #801122014-07-12 20:24:24 *Cenica said:

    Personally I like the new badge and I don't really see that there's an issue with badges not linked to physical/ real accomplishments. In fact i'd find badges like that more elitist in that your excluding people who aren't talented writers, artist, or musicians. If those were the only badges we did, I mean. Badges like this one are fun. Which is what most people come here for.

  17. #801152014-07-12 21:01:37Cenica said:

    Hard type on phone...
    /me facetable
    Basically agreeing with xia-chan. I like a mix of both. Some are more fun and some are more symbols of pride I guess.

  18. #801342014-07-13 08:07:18 *Kirn said:

    @Cenica

    more elitist in that your excluding people who aren't talented writers, artist, or musicians

    First of all - choruses and writing projects are readily available to people who can be not good at singing/writing. Pretty much the only badge that requires some actual serious skill and talent is the artists badge. Which I managed to get even though I can't draw at all.
    Second of all - surprisingly, during my whole time on chat, I have never seen people actually brag or be elitist about having any of the 'participation badges'. However I saw time and time again how they bragged about having crapbadges.
    So calling badges you get for actually doing something elitist is at least very incorrect.

    @xia-chan

    Alright, first of all:

    Piss Kirn off for the day --> Badge. :P

    Easier to just create a counter that would add one badge to every person on site every day.

    Now. You seem to be writing intelligently for a new person, so I may as well go into some details. Too bad all my old posts were deleted, because I think I had pretty much most of my argument made some two years ago (Fieyr isn't talking to me since that time), but what the hell, I may as well do it again. But I have to point out one small thing before I properly start.

    Check my profile. You will see a sort of a badge there (not where the proper badger are, no). That's the badge that I wanted to have just for myself - to have it inside the site database, but for my use only. You should see how silly that idea is, and I realised fast enough how stupid it is. So I refused that idea, but I know full-well about the desire to just have more badges.

    Alrighty.

    I understand that the current ratio of "gimme" vs "achieve" badges is currently rather askew (in terms of what a newly joined member can hope to attain)

    The thing is, the ratio we have now is pretty much way better than the one we had before. because we already had a stage where crapbadges pretty much flooded the site. Obviously, I am not happy with the ratio we had even now, but I can forget about it because we are now more active with projects, so participation badges get more use and attention anyways, and that is well and good and how it should be.
    Btw, about attaining the badges. While project badges have very clear way of getting them, there's no real way measure if the person is ready to get that badge. Actually, even now we have more or less clear badges, even among the crap ones. It was a total disaster back in the day. But even so, I can tell you how the badges like that are used. First of all, badge is made - mindless people are happy, creator-admin those mods who care less about quality of the whole thing distribute the badge among those they deem worthy of it on the spot. Next few weeks people take notice of badge, horse around on chat, trying to get it. Then the whole thing is forgotten until some new user takes notice and goes all 'I want that badge'. And at that stage, I have to say, it's more important if he is accepted in the community than if he is actually displaying the traits needed for that particular crapbadge.
    As I said, these recent days project badges get much more use, so I am happy that the focus of badges shifted to participation. And, naturally, unhappy when we get something like this badge again.

    Not just "Hey, I know quantum physics, and social web design, so give me a badge", but "I've made useful addition to the site because of my knowledge of quantum physics and social media design".

    Now, this is a good concept in that it thinks about bringing some use for the site. But current useless badges won't really fit that idea, and I am really against the idea of making a whole new batch of useless badges and try to fit them to the site purposes. For now useless badges just represent this or that part of your internet personality... and, pretty much, you just get the badge for being what you are... and that's completely without meaning.

    hell, you could even split them into two categories, to differentiate to the commoners eyes

    Well, no real need to split badges. Plus, they are split already, and in more categories.
    We have 'status' badges. Those are Mod badge and Admin badge. And, obviously, they show important information, so they are okay. Back in the day we also had 'Banned' badge, but mods were too lazy to put them on every person we ban, so it got removed.
    We also have 'Donation' badges. Those are Benefactor badge, for those who donated, and Savior of CL, for those who donated during the site ownership transition. Second one is a bit redundant, but it has historical value, so again - both are fine.
    We have my favourite 'Projects' badges. Those now include 2 writing badges (for different kinds of writing projects), artist badge for everything art-related... sadly, we still don't have chorus badge, but maybe soon... and we also have a crapton of AMV badges for back when we had AMV contests. 8 badges for 2 contests, which kinda pisses me off, but since all 8 have clear and reasonable enough meaning, I let them be and don't touch them.

    Most other badges I personally consider to be crapbadges with no real meaning, but even those can be further separated into categories:
    'Personality' crapbadges. Those are Brainiac badge, which is given to smart people (how the fuck do you even measure that?), Narcissus badge for people who love themselves (what an achievement!), Stalker badge (actually, staff bans stalkers more often than gives out this crapbadge), Eternal Flame badge, given to whose who argue a lot (while I like that one, this is, again, something that we mute for, not celebrate), and there's a Love badge, given to lovable people, which is used like a most generic badge ever for when you feel like you don't have enough badges and has completely no meaning. Oh, btw, check my profile again. I hate these retarded Love badges. That's why I was given 6 of them. That was a short trip to our logic department.
    There are also crapbadges representing being the part of some group. Those are 'Old Chap' badge, showing that the user is oldfag. Which by now lost all the meaning because even back in the day the badge was given to non-oldfags, and these days oldfags are dead anyhow, and I think noone but me even claims the title. There's also Corgi badge, which was pretty much used by one of the previous admins to give to a bunch of his bitches, stupid enough to follow his shit. No real contribution here or achievement, and since that retard is dead, that badge should also be buried too.

    And, continuing with this, I didn't mention two more badges. Treasure Hunter badge and Awesomenauts badge. The first one was used for the Treasure Hunt event mods did this year. I don't like it because it was just an event for fun with no end result coming out of it. Then again, it does show people who searched through the site like some mindless lunatics for a whole day, so there is some kind of participation. The second one is made by DC, and all that badge represents is just that some people went to play a computer game with him. That's all. I let you think for yourself if this is anything site-worthy.
    Actually, while I'm at it, I tag @DarkChaplain here. Concidering my last talk with Warlock, I think you should look at the value of that badge too, see that there's pretty much none and remove it. We are not Steam here.

    Lastly, if begging for badges is all that common + detrimental to site growth then why not disallow it, and enforce the rule? Mute->Kick->Ban->Block.

    Thankfully, it's not that often now. I sure hope that won't change, really... But anyhow, making a new rule out of it is not a good idea because we have some problems with rules as we have them now already... So trying to fit and even enforce a new one would not be good. As I said, it's not exactly a problem now, so better would be to just not create this problem all over again.

    Now, something to say to @DarkChaplain

    Let's face the facts. You are seriously addicted to badges. Fuck, I saw you saying on chat something like "damn, I have more Flame badges than Rabu badges, quick give me rabu badges!" which is just shameful. Hell, on the day you made this new crapbadge, you got two of them. This is, I have to say, a pure vanity. Or, in plain words, just bullshit. Or, knowing how much you play games and where you get them, for you I can call this a Steam Badges Syndrome. Take your pick, but it's just not healthy, and a bad form.
    And seriously, why the fuck do I even have to write all this all over again? I had the same fucking talk with you back on the fucking April 1st fuckery this year. And I had pretty much the same socksucking argument with Warlock on a skype, not even two weeks ago! And now this?! Seriously? Do I have to put somewhere a big sign saying 'No, I will not let your retarded badges slip by' or what?

  19. #801662014-07-13 16:06:40xiaden said:

    Oh daunting wall of text, you make replying oh so difficult.

    To make the brief points I feel should be made:


    kirn badge:

    That was more joke than anything, and I have to completely agree with you on your opinion about singling out a member of the community through badges.


    Splitting badges into categories

    I meant a visual differentiation, to go along with the already in place system. Different sections for different quality / types of badges. Which is more an experimental idea to mull over, then something I feel 100% would work.


    blocking for shitty attitudes and begging:

    I don't see how rules can be hard to enforce. Especially ones that should be common sense. After someone gets muted, they normally cease their behavior. Unless you mean there's no tracking system for users being dumb, in which case I'd have to agree. Hard to enforce rules without keeping tabs on who's breaking them. (I have to agree that preventing the behavior is better then punishing for it.)


    Ratio:

    After seeing it explained, the only ones that are not attainable would be the AMV ones, which sounds much better. I thought more of them then not were for past projects, and a one off badge for participation. Perhaps better explanations would help drive off that initial feeling. Also, The reason people look at the badges is solely because they exist. It's like looking at recognition, and gauging how well a community treats those that support it, then reflecting on how well you would be treated for supporting it. If there's a badge you'll never get, then you'll never reach the same level of recognition as an older member through the badge system (which is completely separate from the userbase, but you measure what you know, and new users only know what little they've seen.)


    The rest of the walls of text

    In the further debate DC, Cen and you All made some very good points, after reading everything. Most importantly:

    Not every badge needs to be project or status related, though I personally prefer them to have meaning to the site as a whole. I do not object to those "meaningless" badges out of sheer principle. They can go a long way when it comes to the morale of the community and general bonding. -DC

    Which is why they should exist. But everything in moderation. The rabu badge in particular fulfills this point, while the others ARE actually exclusive, because you're required to act a certain way. I'm pretty sure that's the point kirn's making, It's a non-inclusive badge with no measure, and provides a boost in ego to those that either meet the wicket, or twist themselves to meet it.

    I personally think badges geared t'wards personality traits creates the desire for people that would act false to do so, which directly breaks one of the rules ("be yourself", or whatever it is). Thus you have a badge that might cause issues.

    If they felt excluded they wouldn't stick around for long. -cen

    This. Times 100000. However, badges shouldn't be the method of inclusion into the group. The group, and the way they treat people should be what keeps members here. Walls of badges can only be exclusive if the community makes them so.

    The chorus projects are something people do for fun with no real reward. Already. For 4 years. And yes, I would have liked to have a badge for all those people because they did put some effort, even a minimal one. -Kirn

    This re-enforces the idea that simply having badges for something creates the desire for recognition through that system.


    There's about ten million more things worth mentioning, but i'm pretty sure I've met the tl;dr wicket already.

  20. #801352014-07-13 08:15:55Kirn said:

    @DarkChaplain

    Almost forgot with all this faggotry. For chorus badge you can try not using a note or a mic, but something like a singer's silhouette. Just googling those exact words - singer silhouette - gives a damn decent range of variants. Obviously, I would have went for something like this, but that would have been too arrogant, but anyhow, any person with a mic would probably do.

  21. #801372014-07-13 08:50:34DarkChaplain said:

    The problem with that is that the final badge will be about 75x75 pixels, and more often than not, that results in badly conveyed details and it can get hard to even recognize what is being depicted.

  22. #801362014-07-13 08:48:27DarkChaplain said:

    Let's face the facts. You are seriously addicted to badges

    Bullshit. I couldn't care less about having badges aside from those regarding my status on the site as a staff member, and projects.
    There is always a way to turn a bit of joking into some sort of twisted evidence, though, I guess. Whether or not I have badges on Steam is plain irrelevant - those I get for entirely different reasons and purposes than bragging rights.

    The Awesomenauts badge, if anything, signifies a failed project that, even despite free weekends, $1 sales or bundles, people did not care enough to sign up for participation at the time, and those regulars that did dropped off the face of the earth shortly after. The badge was still uploaded regardless. I'd still be up for organizing that gaming tournament, as I would be for various other games. Does the badge have any quantifiable meaning to CL at this point? No. But it was supposed to have.

    And yes, the new badge is, as you put it a "crapbadge". It has no objective requirements to achieve, no specific goal in mind. What it does, though, is fit in with CL's atmosphere and users. It is not meant to be a mighty achievement, but as a piece of simple, clean and harmless fun that the users will hopefully appreciate.

    Not every badge needs to be project or status related, though I personally prefer them to have meaning to the site as a whole. I do not object to those "meaningless" badges out of sheer principle. They can go a long way when it comes to the morale of the community and general bonding. Giving, for example, a Rabu badge to a relatively new user, shows them that they're appreciated and accepted as part of the community. Even if you yourself may still tear them apart as useless newfags, the rest of the community might have already grown to like them. Showing them that is, by no means, wrong or useless.

    Yes, you will, once in a while, encounter morons like AshitoKenji or Dark-B bragging about their badges, or requesting Rabu for themselves. Or, in the case of Dark-B, bragging how they've been "giving" rabu to people. Yes, those users exist, and won't stop existing. They're easy enough to ignore, though, and won't have it any easier by acting that way.
    The good of "fun" badges outweighs the negative by far.

    And just for the record, this new badge was run through staff first. I counted a whole of 5 moderators approving of it, and one more "I don't mind" before I put it up. The only concern raised on Staff at the time was coming in the form of it potentially being "elitist", as not everyone is all that nerdy on CL. But then, you have to be at least somewhat that way to feel at home here.

    And no, I do not think that the project vs "crap" badge ratio is bad at all. Especially if you consider that the chorus badge is still coming (like I said, it takes bloody time and work to make a nice-looking badge - I know I spent hours on that particular one already over the last few days) and I've also started work on a Podcast Participant badge yesterday, before this stuff here exploded with walls of text.
    That is TWO project-related badges versus ONE "silly" one. More if you consider the new CL Anthology badge that went live this week.

    Like I said in the OP:

    If you have suggestions for new shiny Badges, please feel free to share those

    The only suggestion that has come up lately was, as a matter of fact, the Chorus badge, which is already being worked on. Instead of endless bitching, how about making suggestions for better badges?

    I will agree on the Corgi badge. I had forgotten it still existed. Was pointless then, is pointless now, as nobody who gave a shit about it is still using the site. I've asked Warlock to remove that one, as it was literally just one circlejerk anyway.

  23. #801382014-07-13 09:06:07 *Dark-B said:

    @DarkChaplain

    Dark-B bragging about their badges, or requesting Rabu for themselves. Or, in the case of Dark-B, bragging how they've been "giving" rabu to people

    That's funny, because that was so not what I said. I said, "give" rabu to people, and once you made your way to "implying that you can give to anyone" I went along with telling clarifying and correcting it to "you can "request" rabu to people, not "give" them."

    Funny you'd actually say that though, even if it's not the same as what you were accused of, but it still applies in the same sphere.

    There is always a way to turn a bit of joking into some sort of twisted evidence, though, I guess.

    But, the only difference is, unlike you I wasn't on chat telling people to give me badges, even if for fun, but telling them that rabus are "given" when you request them for a user. But hey, if telling them that much would imply I guess we can't all be DC and make a new badge then get 2 of them quickly after.

    To be frank about it though, yes, I did however talk about my badges a couple of times, big deal, cause talking about the badges you got is a taboo or is obviously an unproductive thing for new members.

    Giving, for example, a Rabu badge to a relatively new user, shows them that they're appreciated and accepted as part of the community. Even if you yourself may still tear them apart as useless newfags, the rest of the community might have already grown to like them. Showing them that is, by no means, wrong or useless.

    I guess I don't fall in the new user category for feeling appreciated after getting badges, so even talking about them for a bit will make me a moron.

    And one more thing, I never ever went up to a staff member solely or even on chat and told him/her "hey, give me a rabu badge please just to boost my badge count and feel way better about myself".

  24. #801392014-07-13 09:08:46 *Cenica said:

    @Dark-B This isn't really a discussion about you...do you have a point to make about being for or against crapbadges? Half the stuff you quoted wasn't even about you...

  25. #801422014-07-13 09:16:30Dark-B said:

    @Cenica Wait, so I can't argue against him calling me a moron out of the blue for something that I haven't actually done? And the stuff I quoted weren't about me obviously, they were to further prove my post, I'm pretty sure it's very clear I didn't post anything about the crapbadges yet.

  26. #801432014-07-13 09:27:49 *DarkChaplain said:

    @Dark-B

    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:02:17 GMT] xia-chan: what causes the rabu badge to appear?
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:02:27 GMT] Cleverfox6320: I recommended my friend to this site
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:03:16 GMT] AshitoKenji: I definitely deserve another rabu
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:03:29 GMT] Lieutenant: no one loves you kenji
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:03:31 GMT] Dark-B: ^
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:03:39 GMT] AshitoKenji: I love me
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:03:57 GMT] AshitoKenji: I am the only love I nee
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:03:58 GMT] AshitoKenji: d
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:04:01 GMT] Dark-B: Also, I only ever gave a rabu to 3 people in this site, so pretty much not going to waste it on you
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:04:18 GMT] Cleverfox6320: What about your parents? don't they love you
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:04:19 GMT] AshitoKenji: Who are those 3 people
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:04:21 GMT] Lieutenant: that's implying for a narcissus badge but I believe that can never surpasses db's narcissist to himself
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:04:45 GMT] Dark-B: Well, here, Frey can be the fourth
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:04:54 GMT] Dark-B: cause he's helpful and made the sakuga thread that I loved
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:02 GMT] AshitoKenji: And who are the other 3?
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:13 GMT] Frey: which i constantly forget to update hahaha!!
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:23 GMT] Dark-B: Kenji, you should discover that on your own.
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:30 GMT] AshitoKenji: Whaat
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:34 GMT] AshitoKenji: How am I gonna do that
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:39 GMT] Dark-B: Exactly.
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:47 GMT] AshitoKenji: I only know one of the other ones ( I think)
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:54 GMT] Dark-B: Who?
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:05:59 GMT] AshitoKenji: Yugu?
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:06:49 GMT] AshitoKenji: Am I right?
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:07:06 GMT] Dark-B: lul no
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:07:11 GMT] Dark-B: why'd I ever give him a rabu
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:07:19 GMT] AshitoKenji: I must be thinking of another time then
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:07:50 GMT] DarkChaplain: implying you can "give" rabu to anybody
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:16 GMT] Frey: I gave rabu before...
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:17 GMT] Dark-B: Excuse my poor and limited and rushed skills, Mr.DC.
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:26 GMT] Frey: i think i had 11 rabu before mehehe
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:29 GMT] Dark-B: Not "give", "request"
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:47 GMT] DarkChaplain: who wanted rabu here?
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:48 GMT] Dark-B: And wait for you overlords to grant permission for it
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:57 GMT] Dark-B: Kenji wanted a rabu from me
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:08:59 GMT] Dark-B: I guess
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:09:05 GMT] DarkChaplain: kenji ain't gettin' any
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:09:19 GMT] Dark-B: Well, I wanted to give Frey a rabu cause he's helpful and made the sakuga thread
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:09:28 GMT] Dark-B: And I loved that thread.
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:09:40 GMT] Frey: but my x1 streak will break
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:09:42 GMT] Dark-B: He should get it and he should continue making it
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:09:50 GMT] Dark-B: Post more, Frey
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:09:55 GMT] xia-chan: ... I'm still trying to figure out how the rabu is birthed.
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:10:14 GMT] Dark-B: Simple explanation, Xia
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:10:23 GMT] Frey: alright :P
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:10:33 GMT] Dark-B: You like someone on this site, you request from the staff to have them give him a rabu badge
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:10:37 GMT] Dark-B: Just that
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:10:52 GMT] Dark-B: Or the staff will like someone and give them the badge as well
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:12:07 GMT] xia-chan: soo, it's kinda like...
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:12:26 GMT] Dark-B: Just sending a heart to someone? yes
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:12:53 GMT] xia-chan: A warning sign for being stalked? >.>
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:13:40 GMT] xia-chan: /jokes
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:13:53 GMT] AshitoKenji: I like myself
    [Sat, 12 Jul 2014 16:14:08 GMT] AshitoKenji: Maybe I'll suggest staff to give me a rabu

    Now, tell me you weren't posturing to have people ask you to "request" badges for them? Yes, you corrected the "give" with "request" after I commented on it, but that was only after you've been doing quite a bit of advertising to the others.
    I know you do those kinds of posturing a lot, and I'm not the only one who has noticed. You obviously care a lot about people showing appreciation for you and patting your back.

    I guess we can't all be DC and make a new badge then get 2 of them quickly after.

    Implying I asked to receive the badges, or that I myself am putting much value into them. It looks to me like you are the one overestimating the meaning of silly badges quite a bit.

    And one more thing, I never ever went up to a staff member solely or even on chat and told him/her

    You do realize that both you and AshitoKenji were mentioned in that regard, yes? It certainly applies to Kenji, and Rebel as well. I also think effect did it. Both you and Kenji were given as examples, but not necessarily for the same reason.

    But for feth's sake, this topic is not about you. You were used as a recent example, and that's it. So stop derailing the discussion.

  27. #801452014-07-13 10:13:11Dark-B said:

    Sigh, "advertising". I realize there's no sense in going on and on about this because quite frankly, I realize how the end result will go after a while of this. For that reason, I won't go on and on and get worked up about it, but I will state that what you pretty much kept spewing here is nothing concrete, or strongly suggests that this topic at the time was for "advertising" people to give me badges, just cause you can twist it or suggest a meaning to it because I don't necessarily say the right "word"(yes, word, "give", nothing else), doesn't make it any less wrong for what I was talking about at the time. And, "I know you do those kinds of posturing a lot, and I'm not the only one who has noticed" Oh, so, from those people, give me one of them that has me clearly stating or doing just that. Adding logs is nice and all, but if that's the best your logs can get ya out of this to prove that is what I was doing, tough luck.

    But, you were true on one part, and that one part was in fact the part I mentioned in my post, which was "You obviously care a lot about people showing appreciation for you and patting your back." Yes, as a new member, like I said, it does feel good to be appreciated indeed, and wasn't that the point you yourself made, that the badges and this entire thing was supposed to be to make new members feel appreciated?

    Doesn't necessarily mean that everything I say about a badge, or saying the very hugely different wrong word that I am "advertising" to get it. And here's what you failed to mention in your post about the log, Xia, a new user himself, asked about how the rabu badge comes to be, and, well, I answered him.

    So, you want to use me as a recent example, go ahead, but don't expect me to sit idly every time you do if I see that your example of me is not where it should be. And with that, I don't really wanna continue on with this, cause like you stated, "derailment of discussion" and in order to keep this about the badges that brought this up.

  28. #801402014-07-13 09:08:57Cenica said:

    The Purpose of Badges:

    So here is the thing. I don't know about every one else, but really I don't pay attention to what badges someone else has. I hardly ever visit other people's profiles unless I'm checking if they're an alt. I think badges are more for personal pride and fun than for showing off for others. You said yourself @Kirn that you don't see people with project badges showing them off. It's nice to get one and it's nice to know you have one. That's about the gist of it.

    That said I do agree that there is a problem with people receiving badges without just cause or because they acted that way on chat simply to achieve said badge. Sure there are people that actually fit the personality badges they are given and were given them for good cause, but there are also those where I question who gave them certain badges and for what reason.

    Why I am against exclusively project and status badges:

    Project and status badges are more valuable than those personality badges you mentioned and more difficult to achieve. For good reason. They take more time, effort, and cause to achieve. They require people to put in time and money. (Money because people have to have recording devices or tablets for art projects. Writing projects pretty much anyone with a comp can participate in.)
    Limiting site to those badges in particular would alienate new users who might feel threatened, for lack of a better word, by the amount of badges related to projects. It'd feel exclusive and the amount of work each project seemed to take might make them wary of joining. If they felt excluded they wouldn't stick around for long.
    Also I think it influences the thought of work too much over play. As I said most people come to CL to have fun. By making all the badges earnable through project participation only I feel that it would send the message that you have to work to earn any place here.

    Why I'm for a mix of badges:

    As DC says giving someone a rabu badge can really help them feel like they belong on site. Crapbadges can be fun and enjoyable. Yeah. They're easy to get, but not as valuable as a project badge as far as respect goes. There's a balance to it if it's done right. Though since badges can't really be easily removed I think there should be more consideration in handing them out.
    Basically, crapbadges to make people feel included and to have fun with.
    And then there are project badges which is a way to show that people's contributions to site are valued and respected.

    Also:
    @Kirn Silhouette's aren't really that great an idea. A lot of detail in something like the pic you chose. Also you can't crop it or you'll have a silhouette that looks like a bull rider. Their arms are often in the air exactly like that for balance.

  29. #801412014-07-13 09:12:00Kirn said:

    @DarkChaplain

    The problem with that is that the final badge will be about 75x75 pixels

    Doesn't have to be full-body one. There are always ones that are just immediate singing area or you can even cut something like this however you want. Anyhow, my point here is that if note or just a mic don't look good - this is another thing to look at.

    Bullshit. I couldn't care less about having badges aside from those regarding my status on the site as a staff member, and projects.

    Want me to remember the Cancer badge fiasco, when you made it and then grabbed it for dear life? Plus, since you are now making a second crapbadge this year and putting it on yourself immediately, I don't feel like believing you on this natter.

    The Awesomenauts badge, if anything, signifies a failed project

    Does the badge have any quantifiable meaning to CL at this point? No. But it was supposed to have.

    Even if it would have been a success, it would have had no more meaning than the badger Warlock planned. And it failed anyhow. Why do we even have this still?

    And yes, the new badge is, as you put it a "crapbadge". It has no objective requirements to achieve, no specific goal in mind. What it does, though, is fit in with CL's atmosphere and users. It is not meant to be a mighty achievement, but as a piece of simple, clean and harmless fun that the users will hopefully appreciate.

    The fact that some people call each other nerds on chat these day is not a good reason to make a badge out of it. And again, seeing how it has Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy symbol on it, and we all know you are the one making a Towel Day thread every year, I can only assume this is the kind of badge you personally want on yourself. And hey, you have two of them already!

    Not every badge needs to be project or status related, though I personally prefer them to have meaning to the site as a whole.

    I can make the same argument and say that we don't need any badges at all. I am, however, going for a middle ground, with meaning and use. And again - we have enough useless ones anyhow. Including the goddamn Rabu badge.

    And just for the record, this new badge was run through staff first.

    Was any kind of a reasoning for the badge even stated? Because with every badge out there that's kinda what you have to start with. And not something vague like 'it is fun and harmless'. Once again - already enough of those.

    That is TWO project-related badges versus ONE "silly" one. More if you consider the new CL Anthology badge that went live this week.

    Once again, having 2 good badges doesn't mean we just have to have a crap one now. We aren't bargaining here in any way. Nerd badge - no use. Chorus/Writing badge - use. That's it.

    The only suggestion that has come up lately was, as a matter of fact, the Chorus badge

    So make one and be done with it. Why make something noone asked for?

    Instead of endless bitching, how about making suggestions for better badges?

    Even if you yourself may still tear them apart as useless newfags, the rest of the community might have already grown to like them.

    You do realise that this serves as more evidence that you just want this crapbadge for yourself and don't want to let them go solely on that reasoning? Because hey, you never had problem with what I do to new users and were always happy about my 'endless bitching' when it was something you agreed with. And suddenly such harsh remarks! Really, now...

  30. #801442014-07-13 09:30:51Kirn said:

    @Cenica

    That said I do agree that there is a problem with people receiving badges without just cause or because they acted that way on chat simply to achieve said badge.

    Here's a fun fact. By posting about how I hate Rabu badges and how Nerd badge is crap, I now got 2 Rabu ones and a Nerd one. I feel like I don't even have to argue about people asking to receive them without any cause when I receive them just because I don't like them. This is already an unjustified giving of a badge (and quite childish too), so that's the argument I already won. I don't expect someone who put badge on me because 'he doesn't like it, so it will be fun' to think seriously about whether to give or not give that badge to anyone wanting it.

    They take more time, effort, and cause to achieve.

    Actually, yes. That's the point. Badge should be given for something you worked to do. That's the whole point of it - badges, medals, game achievements. Now, along the way idea god mudded, and now you get game badges just for figuring how to start the game up. Can you really feel pride for something like that? I can't. And, as I said, from what I saw people brag more about Rabu badges than about Writing badges. Which is actually a good thing is a way, because I wouldn't want people to overly brag about the work they did either, but it still doesn't feel right to see, and there's no reason to make more badges that may create such situations.

    They take more time, effort, and cause to achieve. They require people to put in time and money. (Money because people have to have recording devices or tablets for art projects.

    Now... yes, actually. Especially for artist badges - those do require real talent and... Tablet, I guess? I don't know, back in my day people mostly drew using pencils and paper, so I don't know. Still, I think noone would buy a tablet specifically for an art project here on CL. And I doubt anyone would brag about it.
    But art is one thing. The deal with chorus projects it that, how to say this... They don't have a badge. They had no badges for 4 years now. And you can check the list of them we had. The chorus projects are something people do for fun with no real reward. Already. For 4 years. And yes, I would have liked to have a badge for all those people because they did put some effort, even a minimal one. But choruses are doing perfectly fine without any of that. For fun.

    Limiting site to those badges in particular would alienate new users who might feel threatened, for lack of a better word, by the amount of badges related to projects.

    Quite honestly, I would expect more users to be threatened by me directly. If a user comes in and first thing he does is check the badges on people and be sad about not having them all... I am not sure that's the user we need. And hey, with so many projects on the front page, stickied, we are already intimidating enough. And on chat to - we only like readers. But the thing is, these days I quite often see new people get on and, seeing a lot of projects, become interested in them, and joining stuff like writing ones.

    Also I think it influences the thought of work too much over play. As I said most people come to CL to have fun.

    Already mentioned this, but will repeat.Back in the olde days, when we didn't have any badges at all for stuff like this, we had choruses, fandubs and making of our own animes galore. Just for fun, with as much play as you want involved.
    Now, projects may seem like work sometime because there are a lot of them and you may struggle if you participate in too many... but that's just you yourself (not meaning you exactly here, obviously) being bad with your schedule and taking too much fun so it becomes work.

    Silhouette's aren't really that great an idea. A lot of detail in something like the pic you chose. Also you can't crop it or you'll have a silhouette that looks like a bull rider. Their arms are often in the air exactly like that for balance.

    I already said that that one would have been no good though. Anyhow, I think I offered a possibly workable idea for a silhouette one. And if all else fails - fuck, we can just have a simple note.

  31. #801462014-07-13 11:09:09 *Frey said:

    Gonna share my idea from reading the posts.

    So to make some of the badge attainable through uh, effort. Why not make something like this.

    http://i.imgur.com/0GpfC2n.png

    Plus a hidden threshold for the badge to be obtained. Like you have to get a certain number of brainac'ed post in order to get a badge.

    First brainiac vote on a post gives you a hidden 1point, other brainac vote gives you a 0.5. Point also diminishes over time to maybe make it even harder to get. Of course there are some limitation which includes maybe you can only vote if you're like 99th percentile(to avoid silly account spam) and can only vote once per post. I don't know if this system has already been tried or something but if not, we can maybe give it a try and make the "status" badges more universally attainable through hard work and not through favoritism as some might hastily conclude. And yes I think this is still flawed and can be easily abused, so there's also that "trust the members" factor in there.

    Also, for badge suggestion...well, maybe a Warning badge? If you managed to accumulate a certain number of flagged post or behaving weirdly, you get this badge to warn you that a little bit more and you hit the jackpot.

    Under 13 badge. given to those who are not yet ready to participate in this site because of age reasons. Makes you wonder how we knew their age...

    EDIT: Ah yes... I don't know how "easy" this can be implemented... :(

  32. #801472014-07-13 11:26:41 *Kirn said:

    @Frey

    I will have to shot down those ideas, but thinking about those is a good enough step already, so don't feel too disheartened.

    Plus a hidden threshold for the badge to be obtained. Like you have to get a certain number of brainac'ed post in order to get a badge.

    Easily abused. Any user makes any post, ask a friend to mark it as brainy, and there you go. Or just use alts for that. These bastards will do this, you can be sure.
    And yes, also not sure about how hard or easy it would be to add yet another counter along with likes.

    Also, for badge suggestion...well, maybe a Warning badge?

    I think we had a similar idea some time before... And I think it was decided that marking a person like that would be like marking them as 'not good at all', which too demeaning to have on your profile. Actually, if anything, I would have liked to see 'banned' badge make a comeback, since it just simply informative - user is banned for now. And I feel that current moderators are diligent tnough to not forget to mark a person with a badge for the duration of ban.
    However, while putting a badge on someone is easy, removing it is hard and requires, I think, Warlock for each time. Which makes it inconvenient to remove the banned badge when person is unbanned. Oh well...

    Under 13 badge.

    People under 13 should just be escorted off the site.

    Anyhow, if we are to think about badges, I would rather think about something we have on a site, as a thing, but we don't have a badge for. Choruses are, once again, a great example. We have them, it's a thing, there's no badge. So that's the obvious choice for one.
    Another thought one may have is to create a sort of more clear ruling system for crapbadges we already have. Pretty much like you had with your first idea, so in a way you are thinking in the right direction there.