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  1. Educated Discussion of the Week (one): Christmas!


    #812011-12-25 09:11:54 *VivoDePyre said:

    I'll try my best to have a new topic each week, keep things fresh. However, I could quickly break that promise when the school year starts up again.

    Is Christmas a holy day or a holiday? Yes, they mean the same thing initially, but the socially recognized meaning is different. For years, invading/growing societies have assimilated other cultures into their own. While Christmas may have once been a religious celebration, reflecting on the birth of Christ, it's changed into a corporate celebration of gift giving and of good will. What does Santa or trees have to do with Jesus?

    Many people claim that it's still CHRISTmas, and that it should be a holy day. However, the predominate non-religious society seems to be taking it away and creating a new holiday (similar to how the Christians took this holiday from the pagans).

    This isn't a question of freedoms, such as observing the holiday as holy or refusing to celebrate. The question regards the validity of a religious claim to the holiday. It this really about Christ, or just the holiday spirit and presents (on a whole)?

    Rules/strongly suggested: - Attack the argument, not the person. (avoid Ad Hominem) - Don't start "Prove it" chains. Burden of proof falls on the person who puts forth the idea in question. - If something is common knowledge, please don't request proof. - Post with effort. Improper grammar and misspelling only on rare, accidental occasion. Text talk or low effort posts should be ignored; don't waste time correcting or flaming bad posts. - Stay as close to topic as possible, moving only to validate a point that validates your initial point.

  2. #962011-12-25 09:47:14InvisibleRainbow said:

    My answer is simply, It all depends on how each person celebrates it. My friend went to midnight mass, I stayed home and didn't do anything and have no tree up and don't celebrate it at all, while another friends parents still write from santa on their presents and go all out.. It is the in eye of the beholder I guess..

  3. #1252011-12-25 10:25:08SlantDuffy said:

    Rules/strongly suggested: - Attack the argument, not the person. (avoid Ad Hominem) - Don't start "Prove it" chains. Burden of proof falls on the person who puts forth the idea in question. - If something is common knowledge, please don't request proof. - Post with effort. Improper grammar and misspelling only on rare, accidental occasion. Text talk or low effort posts should be ignored; don't waste time correcting or flaming bad posts. - Stay as close to topic as possible, moving only to validate a point that validates your initial point.

    ^decides not to post anything. except this. oh. and this sentence as well. and this fragment. these three words. and these three. and also these four. and even more so these seven words.

  4. #2602011-12-25 15:25:53Gargron said:

    I feel like Christmas has lost its religious backing for almost every sane person. It's not about Christ anymore, but about traditions, family, and presents. I'm an atheist from a Jewish background and I have a Christmas tree standing in the living room, and listening to Christmas tunes makes me feel warm inside.

  5. #2802011-12-25 16:21:49TokoyamiSenshi said:

    @Gargon: There is no such thing as sanity and there never was.

    But funny, I was born a Chatolic in a Chatolic family in a Chatolic country yet I couldn't care less about Christmas and religion in general. For me, it has no meaning whatsoever. I like new year's eve better. There is no pretense of religion(not saying that Christmas is just religious pretense for everyone, but that's how it seems to be for the most Chatolics in modern society), just an honest party celebrating the natural occurence of completing another circle around our Sun.

  6. #3542011-12-25 22:05:16Elegy said:

    Personally I think we should say Merry Materialism, but that's just me. Jokes aside there's really not much more to be said. I'm a Atheist but I still celebrate it because in my house every holiday or celebration is a day when the closely knit part of my family comes home and we have a nice dinner. It's not about religion because we don't want it to be. Others do want it to be, and so it is.

    As a side topic off this I really don't think people should get so offended by people saying Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays, Honestly, even Happy Holidays is "discriminating" because some religions don't have a holiday around this time, or even celebrate holidays at all. "Meryy Christmas" is a greeting you can say to someone when you just plain mean well. Or so I think anyway.

  7. #4482011-12-26 01:35:08 *ShounenBoy said:

    I live in Catholic family (my parents aren't going to church, but they still believe and celebrate Christmas) in mostly Islamic country, so not many of my friends celebrate Christmas, neither do I. I guess it is mostly because I'm atheist, Christmas means nothing to me... I guess it's religious day, as I previously said, most people in my country doesn't celebrate it. And just as TokoyamiSenshi, I prefer new year evening much more.

  8. #4842011-12-26 03:04:09VivoDePyre said:

    Now that I think about it, I should just rename this to Intelligent Discussion of the week. A debate implies a tug-o-war of sorts, rather than what this is. In no way is that a bad thing, I just feel that a better name is in order.

  9. #5032011-12-26 03:47:00Elegy said:

    Though I love a good debate I don't really see this topic as something much to debate over itself, unless I'm maybe taking it the wrong way? I can't really see there being much of a debate over if it should start to step away from religion even more or not either... It would need people strongly defending each side a lot more than what we're getting right now.

  10. #5502011-12-26 10:02:51VivoDePyre said:

    Good point, Elegy. However, when I consider how stuff like this usually goes on forum, I really don't foresee a debate of any kind. If anything, it'll be an opinion drop box until somebody plays devil's advocate. However, a debate implies some sort of victory or technical display. I don't anticipate any of that. Instead, I feel discussion would be a better term to describe with.

  11. #5742011-12-26 11:58:15sully said:

    What I’m about to say may not relate to anyone so yeah.

    1- To all those that said that Christmas has lost it’s religious element, well you are all darn right about that. But it still may exist to some but it’s rarely seen. I guess it’s because society is changing dramatically, some say for the worst other’s say it’s for the best. I mean think about children ask twice as much presents/gifts then they did before, we all are becoming greedy and selfish. In the past people wished for a family health or one gift, now.... well let’s not talk about about it.

    2- True Christmas is seen more as a holiday other then a celebration which is a pity because I believe that all religion celebration should be celebrated to the fullest.

    3- Totally agree with Invisiblerainbow and Gargron

    I guess I favour the side of “Christmas not being christmasy anymore” more

  12. #23472011-12-30 04:34:17AlphaHikari_1A14 said:

    Christmas is a holiday. Initially it was meant to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ but it lost all its holy elements overtime. Its just a day that our society picked to hold his birthday on since we really don't know what day he was born on. Then there is the whole Santa Claus thing that sprung up. Santa plays a huge part in a family's christmas than it appears. There is more media promoting of Santa than there is of Jesus these days. Also more people are starting to cross out the Christ in Christmas and using X-mas instead. It may be easier to shorten the word but that also takes away the religious meaning of the word.

    In short, Christmas is no longer religious to the masses. Its just another holiday that comes and goes. There is no meaning to it to most people.