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The Grand #GamerGate Thread

  1. #858552014-12-31 05:55:28momo said:

    @--Jack--

    That article was really fun. Disagreement on tone or anything aside, isn't it kinda silly tha it is condemning the "wiki" as being corrupt, that the "wiki" misrepresents when it is edited by anyone and everyone? Why is this not a rallying cry to fix the article, instead of a line-by-line teardown of semantics, tonality, and bias?

    I'm not doing to do the same for the article, as it accomplishes nothing, but if anyone disagrees with the Wiki and feel that it is inaccurate, I do strongly urge you to edit it yourself to more accurately portray the truth. That is how it flourishes and grows, and I am sure it would b a great asset to have it portraying what you see to be the truth~

  2. #858612014-12-31 08:26:53--Jack-- said:

    @acostoss

    Unfortunately the page is locked for editing by the administrative staff of Wiki. While I wouldn't really agree with the article's idea that wiki itself is "corrupt" I do think it's sad that the portions that are obviously bias are left in. It's not wiki I think is to blame, but rather the people with the authority to shut the page down to anyone outside of their staff.

  3. #858842014-12-31 20:15:16Chestnut_Rice said:

    It's been months. Ryulong and other goonies have been reverting like everything. Wikipedia isn't the paradise that many have envisioned. It's an administrative and bureaucratic mess that often ends up with the most repeated answer instead of the right one especially on articles that relate to social issues because of its "no primary research" rule.

    Wikipedia has gotten less and less new active editors every year now. Sysops and senior editors consistently wage revert battles and abuse the rules instead of actually looking for accuracy. This is what drives new people away. You don't just need to have to be good at writing and getting sources to be an active Wikipedia editor, you also have to be a really good whiner, play politics, manipulate ArbComs, and in general be a huge asshat to even remotely get your way sometimes, especially on contentious issues like #GamerGate.

    So, your suggestion of "just edit the page! XD" is naive at best, and at worst, foolish and misleading.

  4. #859012015-01-01 04:08:34DarkChaplain said:

    We have specific evidence of one of the most active anti-GamerGate admins on Wikipedia, who even Jimmy Wales has been calling out on occassion, has been taking donation money from the anti GG hub, and communicates with Brianna Wu and Ian Miles Cheong, both figureheads of anti GG.

    How much evidence of this shit do you need when hours after those people ask for him to edit "their" articles, he actually does that, and watches all day, every day over the talk pages and edits, quickly reverting or discrediting whoever dares disagree with his bollocks?

  5. #858952015-01-01 01:29:42Mau said:

    Here, I think this is relevant. What if the Gamer Gate is the White House gate? What if...

  6. #859132015-01-01 16:23:26momo said:

    @DarkChaplain Honestly there is no discussion anyways, just repeated bitching from both sides about the other. Just seems like anti-gg is starting to ignore gg at this point, at least from what I see from both sides on my twitter feed

  7. #859142015-01-01 16:33:34 *Cenica said:

    Probably because AntiGG people, who allied under the stopgamergate2014 hashtag (ironically enough), are for the most part not willing to listen to GG supporters. As you've pointed out they have pretty much ignoring gg statements and evidence to the contrary. And making stupid, often self-promoting comments instead. They'd prefer to create their own truths and cause. Not always the case as I said, but most often? Yes.
    You also have AntiGG people denouncing that GG supporters are actually gamers now. Because apparently if you disagree with them it compromises your status as someone who plays games.
    In this thread there has been discussion though often it's more of updates on the events of gamergate. Yet, you also have people who post random comments or comments that aren't productive; such as those decrying the gg movement as "bitching" while doing the same themselves.

  8. #859152015-01-01 16:49:49DarkChaplain said:

    You're not seeing jack shit, then. Ben Kuchera, for example, just published yet another bullshit article to condemn GamerGate, after getting into ridiculously stupid Twitter circlejerks again.

    Then you have anti GG fucktards going off on TotalBiscuit for daring to retweet one of their charity livestreams, because it "ruined" the event for the streamer (who let all pretense of it being for a good cause slip right there on Twitter). You have Brianna Wu still calling for random arrests of GamerGate supporters, Chris Kluwe keeps acting like a pile of shit, Ian Miles Cheong can't for the life of him figure out how self-awareness works, NeoGAF is still banning people for expressing sentiments that GamerGate has some valid points and so on and so forth. Oh, and some more failing hashtags to follow on from StopGamerGate

    I dare say that you are in no position to pass judgement, nor do you seem informed on the matter.

  9. #859172015-01-01 18:54:26 *--Jack-- said:

    I agree with Momo in that a lot of activity between GG and anti-gg has been focused on eachother. But I differ at the point were we say GGers and Anti-GGers are both equal groups that have even relatively equal causes.

    If we want to say Gamergate is a group of toxic idiots or that they aren't a legitimate movement because a handful of trolls and sexist people used the hashtag with this.... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1VJKkFIEAA1ZHr.png

    Then we'll have to hold all of Anti-GG accountable for all the posts that are, arguably, worse than some of the trolls accused of being from gamergate. And there are a lot of anti-gg posts like these:

    http://i.imgur.com/Ios9Yxs.png

    This one because TB mentioned a GG charity: http://i.imgur.com/yCnGsUJ.png

    http://i.imgur.com/blV9aai.png

    http://i.imgur.com/6NGEDNN.png

    Unless someone has a moronic level of denial, we should all be able to agree that the 100+ tweets (trying to be fair) like this coming from Anti-GGers, and some of them supposedly upstanding adults, make up for the handful of trolls that claimed to be from Gamergate.

  10. #859402015-01-02 16:14:29momo said:

    I fail to see what is wrong with this

    http://i.imgur.com/Ios9Yxs.png

    I mean it is wrong to wish death on anyone, but if those that felt women should not be treated as equals were to ~mysteriously disappear~ then the world would, in fact, be a better place. Are you saying that sexism is a good thing, and if it decreased that would be a bad thing?

  11. #859442015-01-02 19:11:48--Jack-- said:

    Considering the differences between newer feminism and older feminism, being anti feminism isn't the same as being sexist. It's not really black & white like it used to be. Also I was considering not adding that tweet mostly because it's more vague as to why its wrong, and its always annoying because the more vague something is, the more chance there is of people just outright not believing you for no reason even if they do explain it. But here goes..

    Many people, while they're pro equal rights, think "new wave feminism" or the new ideas that the feminism movement represents, are not really fair, aren't about equality, or are outright ridiculous. So there are some morally ok people out there who don't like "feminism" as it is today and qualify as anti-feminist by todays standards. All Geordie Tait was saying is that all anti-feminist people that are also in Gamergate should die...based on their opinions because he doesn't like them....thats not cool. Not to mention there are a lot of women in Gamergate and a lot of women that are pro equality but not fans of the current form of "feminism" as it is right now. So it really isn't a sexism issue at all, its just someone saying all of a type of person should die because he doesn't like them.

  12. #859452015-01-02 20:42:56Destro said:

    Ooph this is a strawman argument yo hes trying to say that since the gamergate community is opposed to harassment by the anti gamergate community we are opposed to this one guys tweet therefore making everyone involved sexist, First of all that guys tweet is just feeding on the perceived sexist agenda of the gamergate community and second of all this whole post was stupid. Acostoss i read through your arguments here and they haven't been bad i appreciated your different view points in opposition with the group think here, but this was beneath you.

  13. #859632015-01-03 07:42:08awkwardangels said:

    I stopped supporting Gamergate for many reasons, one of which a lot of GG'ers harassed my friends who questioned their antics, they used no vile language, for absolutely no reason.

    However, this is where I put my foot down and say 'fuck you Gamergate'

    http://i.imgur.com/wVNka5q.png

    If you don't know already, Leelah Alcorn was a trans girl who killed herself due to abusive and transphobic parents and a overall transphobic society I checked and well, they are making fun of her suicide. I'm trans, and many of my friends are trans. This isn't fucking funny. Being transphobic, sexist, and laughing at a trans girls death is something I will not stand for.

    Really, fuck both sides of Gamergate. It's a lost cause and both parties won't admit to it, which is really sad. Just leave that shit in 2014 and move on with your lives.

    I've been meaning to speak up about this for awhile but this was what set me off, good job Gamergate.

  14. #859932015-01-03 23:23:49 *DarkChaplain said:

    @awkwardangels
    You must have missed why GamerGate people even talked about that suicide. It was actually Brianna Wu who dragged it on, trying to weaponize it against GamerGate, despite there being absolutely no connection.

    You do realize, though, that there are plenty of "trans" people supporting GamerGate, and not getting crap for it, right? Just because Milo or whoever may have a different opinion on the matter of how the condition should be approached, that doesn't mean that GamerGate is transphobic or jack.

    http://41.media.tumblr.com/5429c34cab1b43afb3f5d386de31918d/tumblr_nheghwkROd1swbk6po1_1280.png

    Since when have you been trans? Last I heard, you had a mexican boyfriend or sth. Sure that isn't yet another tumblrtrend?

  15. #859952015-01-03 23:50:14 *Cenica said:

    Did you actually find proof of people, who say they are gg supporters, making fun of the suicide? Or are you just going by what everyone else is saying?
    Regardless, both suicide and transgender bias are pretty serious things, and really an individuals views on those have no relation to their views on games media. So even if someone who was pro gamergate did do what the whole group is being accused of; I'm pretty sure everyone has their own views on that occurrence. Whether they're gamergate supporters or not. And I don't think an individuals personal views on something like that represents the views of the whole group.
    I know I personally don't approve of that behavior. But my views on that don't really change my views on games media. The two aren't really related.

  16. #859672015-01-03 10:15:29 *momo said:

    @--Jack--

    I think you're drinking a bit too much of the Kool-aid. Any form of equality advocacy is hardly something you should be against, the concept is just silly. Explain to me what exactly you're trying to prove by using the "pro-equality women in gamergate" as a shield against the criticism that it is largely populated by people that have proven themselves as anti-equality, anti-lgbtq shitters? (oh hey @awkwardangels just posted about this point exactly!) Do I really need to restate my points about Milo and co, and other "well-known" proponents of Gamergate?

    Oh yes, "they aren't the true face" or "they don't speak for us" or "they aren't our leaders", but then we're so quick to turn around and point fingers at the popular people of anti-gg, or to point out some grand thing our lord and savior ToeTowlBisquik said/did. The hypocrisy is really quite silly.

    And honestly this is all quite useless, because GG is seen as a joke by the very media it is trying to reform. They are played by gaming blogs for hits, they "renounce their past misgivings" for support then turn cheek and play for the other team, and all the while swipe up all that delicious ad revenue that pays for the better, longer thinkpieces. All the while GG fights anyone and everyone that isn't believing that "ethics in gaming journalism" is an issue worth pouring so much time and effort in to, whether it be anti-gg, confused onlookers, or another faction of it (8chan, twitter, so-called fems and their white knights). It accomplishes nothing.

    Again, I am going to propose something, something @Woxxy on twitter or someone connected to him suggested:

    Make your own goddamned gaming press site/network

    There was work on vidya.moe, a crowdsourced review site effort that would take all possible avenues of unethical behavior out of the picture. Everyone writes reviews, they are graded by the community, best ones get the most exposure, EVERYONE WINS YAYAYAY

    I mean it is cool and all to just bitch on forums instead of actually doing something, it's cool to say "we're not advocating for other things, this is important to us" but be the very slacktivists that are lampooned by members of your faction. You have that right.

    I just then have the right to make fun of ya~

    @Destro

    It is perceived as such because it has been proven time and again by the gamergate community. Whether damage control is done or not by the level-headed few, the community is made up of some rather horrid people that would defend child porn as free speech on their 4chan knockoff (after being banned from 4chan).

    Cosby did nothing wrong

    I mean, forgive me if I am rude, but by no means would I want to be in any ways connected/associated to a pedophile apologist movement. Even if you don't see them as being a part of "True Gamergate", others do.

    And aww, yes, you called it a strawman so my argument is invalidated, oh no! In turn, any claims that members of Gamergate that do bad things that you denounce as "not really Gamergate" is evoking the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy!!

    Oh wait, that's right, logical fallacies don't invalidate arguments, and you missed the point of mine, the one being that this is what your movement is seen as from the outside, and whether you agree with it or not, you can't do shit about it. It is your scarlet letter

    http://i.imgur.com/cRNu6Bo.jpg

  17. #859942015-01-03 23:38:44 *Cenica said:

    The hypocrisy is really quite silly.

    Your own words are kind of falling back on you. The majority of what you're saying works toward Ant-GG supporters as well as GG supporters.

    I just then have the right to make fun of ya~

    Bitching on a forum? What are you doing right now? I call this bitching. It's not productive. And it really brings out your ignorance. The points you are making are very general and uninformed. They are also several months behind and seem to follow the propaganda. Gamergate supporters have been acting. They have not simply been sitting on forums and bitching. Unfortunately I can't say the same for Anti-GG supporters. For the most part they simply seem to be bitching about GG supporters. Rallying under twitter hashtags and spreading the word that all GG are stupid biased and somehow haters. Anything that contradicts this propaganda is a "shield" and therefore treated as if worthless.
    As has already been pointed out, if you want to define GG by the idiots, oppurtunists, aggressors, and trolls it contains; then you have to do the same with AntiGG.

  18. #859962015-01-03 23:56:27Destro said:

    First thing telling someone that they should support any group because they have seemingly noble intentions is flat out asinine at best and entirely dangerous at worst its that kind of koolaid that got the Nazis in power!!!! (now its a really internet argument!) nah all jokes aside equality is a multifaceted issue with many people proposing different means of achieving it. Jack like everybody else is allowed to disagree and have opinions on how to go about achieving equality. Feminism is a large and diverse group with a lot of good people working toward positive goals, but with any large movement there will always be the radical, spiteful, and down right insane to mar the reputation of the larger whole I cant speak for jack but i believe it is the latter groups i mentioned that create a negative feeling toward feminism.

    Many people within the gamer gate community understand the toxicity of those few people that would mar the reputation of the larger whole, its the reason why there are whole groups of people dedicated to weeding out the toxic and performing damage control. Calling GAMER gate a "pedophile apologist movement" is completely ludicrous and the reason why i had that jab about Nazis earlier on in this post. Gamer gate is about ethics in gaming journalism you can point at all the vile people within the gamer gate community but they'll just point out all the vile people in the anti gg community; it gets us nowhere to saying "well you've got some shitty people therefore your cause is shitty". These arguments can be applied to any large diverse organized group of people it gets us nowhere and neglects the real problems. The danger about rhetorical fallacies is not that they don't contain an actual point its that they distract from the actual argument. Your point was that there are undesirable people within gg but it was hard to find UNDERNEATH ALL THAT STRAW!!!! ooph ok sorry i had to. The point is because of the way you decided to approach it Jack felt the need to defend his stance on FEMINISM not gg which left him open for your rebuttal about equality and made me write a whole paragraph about it too even (my rebuttal about your rebuttal to jacks rebuttal was just fuel for this rebuttal!!). You see your straw man started a discussion about equality you took the "righteous" position used it to discredit jack and then went on to actually talk about the subject after securing a dominant position. Another note is that you used a poor tweet for your straw man you found a guy who said he wanted to kill all anti feminists even you admitted that wishing death upon others is wrong; im just saying you could have found a better scarecrow. Gotta give you props for the giant scarlet letter pic it really drives your point and im being serious i like theatrics.

    I'll be honest i dont actually care about games journalism i get my game news from youtube which apparently is where all of the gaming info seems to be going anyway. My interest in gamer gate is similar to yours actually just different sides of the fence; I hate the people who use equality and social justice as a flag to justify abuse and the pushing of their own agenda, its frankly evil if you ask me. My concern is that these manipulative people are allowed to be toxic and cruel doxing and banning anyone who defers and then turn around and cry victim for public support and that its working! We can sit here and pull up hundreds of tweets and articles showing the abuse by anti gg which has already been done in this thread but the flag of social justice will just be waved and the general public will just naturally gravitate to them its scary. As for Angels those people who would laugh at the death of an innocent person aren't doing it because they're in gamer gate its because they're shitty and shitty people don't need a reason. That guy in your tweet was far from toxic except toward the end (did he seriously just try and play victim) but hes right the movement has nothing to do with that tragedy.

    At the end of the day we're not gonna change each others opinions we're all firmly held in our positions but i do appreciate being able to discuss it with civility thanks for being a reasonable guy to talk to man its refreshing.

  19. #859982015-01-04 01:11:51Kip said:

    alright alright, the topic is derailing. that seems to happen quite a bit in this thread.....

    let's try sticking to the main point. explain your movements side of the story, discuss, educate each other. bringing up things that some random person said or did, doesn't have anything to do with the thread. especially when you are posting tweets that are directing death threats to a community. there is a time and place to discuss certain matters like that; this is not the place for it, nor is the post constructed in a way that benefits actual conversation in this thread.

    i'd like to add in a reminder; one person does not represent the majority of a movement. and supporters of a movement are sometimes much more radical than the leaders of it, unfortunately. even if the supporters are jerks, that doesn't mean the movement itself is a good or bad cause.

    regardless of how GamerGate and Anti-GG community looks from the outside, there's no need to point fingers or bring attention to it, or base opinions based on how a section of the community acts (like, we get it, MLP has a huge Brony following, so what). Transphobia and Feminism are also very different topics that, for some reason, are being brought up despite not having anything to do with the overall discussion of GamerGate and feminism was already addressed in this thread some time ago, and was warned to be ceased due to, again, derailing the topic. not because it was bad, but because it's not GamerGate. if you want to discuss sexism and the effects of it on the gaming industry and journalism, things actually related to the topic, then by all means, use some references for your discussion if you'd like. and if you feel that there are transphobic issues in the gaming industry or journalism, get some good pages on it that are well written.

    but the point of GamerGate is to stop corrupt gaming journalism, bring notice to it, and produce accurate and healthy gaming journalism. it's written all over the OP. YES the issue originally started due to journalists using sexism as a scapegoat, YES sexism has been a big part of discussion for GamerGate because of it, but bringing toxic conversation into here about sexism is silly. there are already strict facts about GamerGate and how it all started laid out for anybody with internet access to read. anybody who has thoroughly read the OP will understand that and get a good grasp on what GG is all about, and once you fully understand, you can decide whether or not you want to support it or move on. that's your choice. it's also true that with time, information about movements tend to die out and the followings become smaller and usually more rash in opinions (people are just starting to catch up now, there are a lot of feelings that they want to post or tweet about, their information is just from some rant they found online, etc etc... happen more often than you think, it is "the witching hour"). The Hive Mind effect wears off. this doesn't mean a movement is dead, you just won't be seeing much activism except from major figureheads of the GG and Anti-GG movements if you aren't an active participant.

    now, that being said; it is okay to dislike a community online. you are free to express that. but the community is not the topic of discussion here. the movement is... a lot of stuff i see being written on this current page alone is very lacking in actual discussion and more of just blaming and opinions on certain people. the thread is normally updated when an important piece of information related to GamerGate or Anti-GG happens. if you disagree with how the thread is updated or are getting tired of the discussion, you don't have to participate. needless arguing on threads is unproductive, and we won't be afraid to lock the thread or order members to stop posting in it in order to prevent further derailing and arguing. i'd rather not see this thread die out or get locked due to derailing and arguing because it provides a lot of discussion that the rest of the Forum is lacking in, is a great source for people who want to learn about GamerGate, and a lot of users are invested in the topic.

    if you would like to discuss certain things pertaining to other issues that are not GamerGate, i encourage you to make new threads about it or bring the discussion into chat as long as it is appropriate. if you want to talk about "repetitiveness" in Anti-GG and GG sides, i can tell you, i am seeing a lot of similar patterns here with what certain people keep bringing up in this thread for no reason (ironically, Anti-GG people, or those who dislike GamerGate). please, this has gone on long enough. an entire PAGE???? @Destro has already said some things while i was writing this post which i agree with, so i'm sorry if i sound rather redundant because of it.

    a lot of my post is also me repeating that "GamerGate is the topic" but i feel like this obviously needs to be addressed at least several more times for people to understand it. there are certain ways to discuss your disagreements and points; this was definitely not the way, and was mainly just grabbing at whatever could be found to make a messy argument about nothing and to put people in a bad light unnecessarily.

  20. #886742015-04-10 02:43:24 *--Jack-- said:

    Important Note to ALL Twitter users.

    Check to see if you're on a Blocked User List

    Just for your Information, Anti-GamerGate Twitter users have a blocking system, an auto-blocker of sorts, that blocks users based on various things. The goal of course is to have all associations with GG being blocked on some peoples twitter feeds. This is all fine and well (echo chamber criticisms from me aside)...except for the fact that the auto-blocker is poorly made, and blocks all sorts of people for no reason.

    Even Richard Dawkins (Biologist), Brian Cox (Physicist), and Christina Hoff Sommers (Equity Feminist) are on the list. Are you being blocked for having different opinions or following the wrong person?

    Also supposedly all the people tweeting about #AreYouBlocked, a hashtag about "why is this so wrecklessly set up?" may be blocked in the near future by the same people, on a new list.... For doing literally nothing. People that aren't involved aside from following a user who said the wrong thing.


    An Added point: These blocklists are essentially a tool to game twitters automated suspensions as well, getting people potentially suspended for NO REASON:

    http://i.imgur.com/yg4ZVw9.png

    Edit: Also the KFC twitter account is on the list. Yes, kentucky fried chicken.