Okay look, @DarkChaplain, you are in the wrong here. First of all, LK's ad hominem point is not his main point, and secondly it is absolutely correct. The way Kirn behaves on these forums to keep an "evil" reputation is akin to a kid trying to be special to get attention - but let's not go deeper into that.

The fact is that first Sarkeesian created her project (announced her idea) on Kickstarter with a goal of $6,000. Considering the amount of money Yogventures requested to build a video game, that isn't even bold. Maybe recording your screen and uploading it to YouTube isn't a big deal, but that's when you already:

• have a powerful-enough PC
• respective recording software
• the game(s)
• electricity
• internet connection
• food

Now let's say, most of us have these things already. We paid for them in the past. But if someone wanted to start from scratch, they'd have to pay for all of that at once. And don't forget living costs - if it really should be a professional research, that means fulltime research. And that means it has to pay for a living. At last, research means work, intellectual effort, time, and previously invested education - that deserves a compensation.

Let's not forget that just because some people decide to translate TV series for free online, real translators still need to get paid.

Now, after she announced her project, she was met with a wave of hatred from one side, and with tremendous support from the other. She didn't ask for $50k, people volunteered. So get over that.

My only contribution to this thread, because everyone is raising very valid points:

1. Needless to say, this campaign is clearly a satirical jab against Sarkeesian. If you believe this project stems from actual, honest outrage at Sarkeesian, then you're a goddamn hack. Read on.

2. As someone beautifully put it (in /vg/, no less!) there is as much misandry as misogyny in videogames stemming from the same reasons: appealing to an audience. Prove the existence of one and you prove the existence of another - which brings me to the next point:

3. What I believe this project is trying to do is to show there was no need for Sarkeesian to ask for six thousand dollars (let alone one hundred and fifty thousand) in order to make videos about an non-issue. Of course they are going to develop muscled men and prominent bitches in videogames! What the hell are you expecting? Everyone is going to be offended by something anyhow.

4. And finally, all the money is going to charity. Let me repeat that. All the money is going to charity. Everyone who's contributing to it knows it. If this isn't a clear reference that Sarkeesian is hogging unnecessary money to herself, I don't know what is - which reinforces my claim that this is a satire - I mean, just look at the perks at the right side of the page!. But satire and seriousness aren't mutually exclusive - this project could raise very valid points if the videos come to fruition. It only needs the right amount of srsness so it's either not dismissed as a joke, and the right amount of comedy to make it look like it comes from some butthurt neckbeard Men's Rights Activist.

Now, if you want my opinion on sexism, patriarchy, and all that jazz, I think everyone here knows what I think about the modern branches of feminism AND the Men's Rights Movement. Not to mention my lovely, lovely thoughts about the whole social justice bullshit.

Now let's say, most of us have these things already. We paid for them in the past. But if someone wanted to start from scratch, they'd have to pay for all of that at once. And don't forget living costs - if it really should be a professional research, that means fulltime research. And that means it has to pay for a living. At last, research means work, intellectual effort, time, and previously invested education - that deserves a compensation.

But she has all of that.

Now, after she announced her project, she was met with a wave of hatred from one side, and with tremendous support from the other. She didn't ask for $50k, people volunteered. So get over that.

Did you know that 90% of backers were male? What do you make of that?

Did you know that 90% of backers were male? What do you make of that?

@Nandaba What does that have to do with anything? If you mean the way I used the word "side" and you decided I connected it to genders, sorry, I merely used it as a separation between opinions.

But she has all of that.

Yes but she doesn't have to have it, nor do you have any actual proof she does. Therefore it is completely fine to ask for compensation for it. Even if she has it, that compensates her investment.

Did you know that 90% of backers were male? What do you make of that?

That men have more purchasing power in our fucked up world.

Oops ;P

Oh God, this turned into an elementary school-style girls vs boys thing hasn't it?

Can't we just turn off our victimization complexes and enjoy the games?

Such an awesome community =)

I feel ashamed, @lolikitsune.

I was trying to respond in light-hearted manner to InsaneBoredGame's comment.

That sounds almost as awesome as NEITHER men NOR women serving in the military :D

I am just going to leave this here.

@DarkChaplain

... Are you serious with this. I just... wow. WOW. No, you're seriously stereotyping both men and woman now, DC.

Please don't even start with that, it's just disgusting and incredibly stupid.

I don't know why discussions always have to get so personal in these kind of threads. There's a lot of uncalled for smites and jabs here, but ah well.

I think most of my own opinions on the matter have been expressed here already, but I'll just say them in a manner more suitable to my own taste (i.e. not evil or rude XD XD)

That girl's project got negative reactions because of the nature of the topic she chose, it's Feminist, always debatable and it will always have different sides with different point of views. Now I'm a woman and I am all for the "Girl Power" stuff, but frankly a lot of people miss the point when they fight for 'women's rights' or 'equality'. People who talk about feminism and 'empowering women' are just contributing to the divide that they want to abolish, plus are most likely just wanting the attention. Misogyny is present in media, but that's old news really. I am not sure, however, what making vids that point it out would do. If you don't like the way women are represented, then don't buy the games, don't let your kids play them, don't play them yourself. Or, just buy the games with eye-candy that's for girls. There are a lot of them, though I do agree that girls are a big part of the gaming community they're still not being catered widely enough to. But really, most RPGs cater to both male and female gamers, why else would the guys look oh-so-pretty? And if you are really a 'gamer' you'd be playing for the fun and challenge of the game, regardless if you are staring at a female or male ass for 30+ hours.

This leads me to the second problem I have with the project, which is asking for $6000. I am not sure how 'professional' she wants this to be, but her ideas can be implemented in a much more cost-effective way in order to get her message across. The thing is this: if you really care about your message so much, you can do it without all that money. She doesn't need to buy all the games, she can just use footage with permission from other people and comment on that. I am sure most LPs out there , in HD quality, cover the entirety of the games she wants to comment on, and most of the online community is actually helpful and would contribute their own vids for her commentary if her points are valid or her project interesting enough for them to be part of.

How different would her point be if she were to play the games and not use other people's footage? Ah well.

She got a lot of money, and people are butthurt about that. I just tip my hat to her for being smart to choose something that would interest people enough to give her their cash. She was smart enough to find a campaign that would help her do her hobby and not have to worry about actually providing for herself. Not honorable, sure, but it's a quick way to make cash!

Now this Project on the other hand, is genius because of how it points out how wrong it is to ask for money for such a thing. It is possible to make all the vids she wants to make with not much cost. They have to pay for their own living costs, and for the time they will take, but if they are passionate enough about it then it can be done!

Now dragging in stuff about how girls don't spend on games, or how they expect guys to pay for stuff, military service... That's just going in a whole different direction and needs its own thread. I'd let you know that I always carry the groceries and pick up the bills in my household, but not all girls are the same. Stereotypes are there because there are enough examples to uphold them. Nothing to be butthurt about. It annoys me as well, the girls who want equality but still feel that a guy has to open a door for them, or give up their seats, help them carry heavy things, buy them jewellery, pay for the bill, open the car door etc.. If the guy does it, it's out of decency, and I appreciate it, but I do not expect it. Open your own doors, play the games that portray women positively, and be independent enough to fund your own projects through getting a job instead of asking people online for charity.

Seriousness is downplayed with remarks such as

Aside from that, most girls are probably not too eager checking the internet for anything but cat-pictures or using chat sites or IM software, while guys are all over the place.

I am absolutely humored.

Edit: But besides mentioning this trend in some of the posts, I'll bring up few fresh points.

Sarkeeshan stated on her webpage, "Do you enjoy my videos? Please make a financial contribution to keep them advertisement free!" And then this: ^$158,917. To keeping her videos advertisement free? Really? At least she should explain her division of funds into the other things she'd need them for. From looking at her about section, perhaps they might go to funding her workshops and speeches across the country?

@Gargron mentioned that people were donating to her cause from free will which is absolutely true but in stating the goal of how much she wants to raise that is basically asking for the money. As well as the 'please make a financial contribution' snippet taken out of the above context.

Edit: On the antimysandry in video games cause, raising money for charity is seems like a weird idea to me at first but when you delve into their intention to mock Sarkeeshan, they could have located their platform elsewhere while making their cause use up no money at all. But I guess this is more effective because it's a much more noble direction to put your money in.

My opinion is still flexible towards both groups, this thread discussion has been somewhat productive and it's nice to read what you all think.

@DarkChaplain

I won't even get into a petty argument with you. I'm just saying, you're being incredibly silly in this thread.

@DarkChaplain ... Are you FUCKING kidding me? What made you think this was a good reply? You're being immature right now, holy shit.

@Ashkachan

Hey, no shaming allowed!

Oh look, there's the obligatory DC vs Ashley bitchfight.

grabs popcorn

But seriously, there are stereotyped and unfair depictions of both men and women in video games. Both are supposedly bad. Why do you have to complain about who has it worse?

Why play misery poker when those before-mentioned games are pretty awesome?

@lolikitsune:

I guess the most simple way to put my actual feelings on the matter as opposed to my debate stance on the matter is -- it's great that Sarkeesian wants to put together these videos. It's good that people are willing to give her money to do it.

Now, I feel like you have straw-manned me on at least one point. I did not argue that the problem is the demographic; rather the problem is the writers. The demographic only further the problem via supply and demand. I suppose it is, in a practical world, too much to ask that every single video game writer stand on principle because the one guy who is still making airheaded gunslingers with double-H cup breasts in all of his games will gain audience. You can fix writers, but it's going to take a lot more to fix manchildren, and the next titties-and-guns video game writer to come along will just scrape up the market share.

That doesn't make me feel like it's any less wrong, because it is still socially unjust. But I, for one, can't craft a solution for it.

Secondly, about the idea of chivalry: we seem to have been referring to different things using this word, so let us discard it. This confusion does not serve this discussion well. I will continue to speak about the many contradictions of the "aggregate ideal." And I don't think you can shoulder the blame for the "aggregate ideal" entirely on men, nor can you say it would be as simple for men to stop posturing and let it all go away.

Society at large, both male and female, shuns the unmanly man. Educated society shuns the man who is too masculine. And stories and tropes reinforce the idea of the aggressive, athletic, posturing, brave, stubborn man, at the same time that scholarly thought has created an ideal of an egalitarian, well-read and well-spoken, studious and liberal gentleman. Women also have to deal with the contradictions between the "ideal wife material" and the "enlightened human". The sad business is that both men and women in 2012 have to deal with both sets of contradictory expectations.

I could wax at length on the dichotomy between the human "alpha male" and a reasonably enlightened male human being, but I don't think that's germane. To my next point.

It has been discussed before, and most people are probably aware that portrayals of females in video games are caricatured. Then again, so are portrayals of men. That doesn't make "portrayals of women" any less valid of a discussion point.

However, it's not somehow bad to look at things from the other perspective too. The fact that you personally don't believe it's as big of an issue doesn't make it any less valid of an inquiry, scientifically speaking, to discuss how society's (and, by extension, women's) expectations for what a man should be shape the young male psyche through media.

I do not feel like either of these series will be an inquiry, though. They both seem like prime soapboxing opportunities to reaffirm either party's agenda, and the Amens in the form of dollars keep pouring in.

Now here is the biggest itch to scratch. I am not so much worried about the principles at stake here. I am an egalitarian and believe all men should be treated equally until scientific evidence proves otherwise. If this film stands to advance that, I am not opposed. If it through some machination or perversion of the message does not stand to advance that, I am opposed. But one thing I am opposed to is dishonest money-grubbing, and I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if the production value of these films does not reflect their price tag.

Who stands to gain? Sarkeesian. She's not "rolling in money" but she definitely stands to gain. She may gain far more than she advances human knowledge and the actual discussion at stake. And I think, more than the proper issue being discussed, that's what has upset people.